Buddhism, science and fractals

[AllIsOne]

I am Buddhist, I work in physical sciences and really like fractals! So I am presenting here how my three passions converges



In Buddhism, the ultimate truth is that all is emptiness.
Nothing exists on its own side.
Everything is in relation with everything.
We cannot isolate a phenomena from the others phenomenas.
If we are searching for an object with science and wisdom, we will never find it.
Everything is made of parts and those parts are also made of other parts, even the smallest part will have an up and a down side.
The objects are simply appearances in our mind ( even the mind is made of parts ).
It is our mind that decides that the apple starts here and finishes here and this decision is purely subjective,it’s a simple convention.
If we don't search the object with precision, it appears, if we search it precisely it disappears. If  we try to find and go toward a rainbow, it will disappear.


In science, we can observe the same phenomena.
The more we zoom on the matter, the more it disappears, becoming full of empty space.
In quantum physic they notice that we cannot separate the observer from the experience.
We define what is the limit of the object, where his surface finishes.
There is no true separation of an apple and the air beside in our mind.
Also you might think that you are reading on the same computer screen since the beginning of this text,
but in reality all the atoms had completely changed of place and shape and at each moment a new screen appears.
The screen that remains is the screen you imagine, conceptualize, in your mind.



With fractals, I will take Mandelbrot set an example, we can see branches and shapes emanating from the black shape in the middle.
So we think there is really something, a real shape, something we could possibly touch, real limits or surface of this object.
So we zoom to find what are the limits of this shape, this object, but the more we zoom, the more we find smaller parts and allot of empty space!
Also, we think that this fractal could exist without us, but that is false.
If the Mandelbrot set could exist from its own side, it would take an infinity amount of time to exist, to manifest itself, because it has no limits.
When we zoom in the Mandelbrot set, we are not looking at something already existing that is waiting for us to be discovered, we are creating a new Mandelbrot set.
Even more subtle, even if we enter the same parameters, it is not the same fractal, because we are not looking at it on the same screen, on the same computer
and the observer does not see it the same way his friend would.
Something I find amazing in Mandelbrot set is that all parts of the fractal are connected, but paradoxically, if you zoom to find the link, you will never find it!



Something I find funny is that, if we look at the form of a Buddha, it look like very much like the black part of a Mandelbrot set, with his two bump on his head!

In my Buddhist tradition, New Kadampa Tradition, we believe that Buddhas are everywhere.
It is nice to find in every parts of the Mandelbrot set : the big Buddha , many other Buddhas, within many others Buddhas....
Maybe our body is made of Buddhas 


What do you think about that ?



ps: sorry if you think I should write this post in BUDDHISM,
 but I found that it was not going in the direction I wishes.

[bib]

Lovely analysis

[Thunderwave]

That's pretty much the way I feel about everything. 

[Tglad]

I'm beginning to think more this way... It sounds new age, but maybe its true that the universe is fundamentally recursive, so it is all connected, if you like physics then look up 'the invariant set hypothesis' which models the universe as a big fractal... not in the crude way of 'a spinning atom being a solar system' type thing, but that its whole description is like a big strange attractor.. it exists right on the border (like the mandelbrot set border) because any universe not on the border would have shrunk into nothing (inside) or flung off to infinity (outside).

[Thunderwave]

I'm beginning to think more this way... It sounds new age...

I find it interesting that a lot of this "Western New Age" philosophy has been around since ancient times in the East before even the Roman Empire. I speak of Zen (India) and the Tao (China).  Though I learned more about Taoism then Buddhism, I understand Buddhism better then Taoism.  It would seem that Taoism is very fractal indeed, because Lao Tzu's writings are just as deep and meaningful as any fractal I've seen, and just as hard to comprehend.   Which! This brings up an old article I posted here somewhere about the "I Ching" being fractal in nature.  The "I Ching" is one of the oldest books known, if not the oldest.

...and yes, I know the two philosophies are unrelated in literal points of views, but if we are talking about fractal philosophies, I felt it relates.

[bib]

I think the mandelbox and its variants also contains some Buddhist shapes. This one reminds me of Thai temples.

[Thunderwave]

I bet Bib could find anything in those fractals Bib generates.

[AllIsOne]

@Tglad

I am reading about karma and the mind in a Buddhist book and it look very much to the fractals and recursive functions for me.

In Buddhism, the mind have no begging or end.
It pass from a live to an other live perpetually. So we had a innumerable number of lives and experimented all realms a multitude of times.
Karma said we experiment the effects of our actions. The effects are in the same nature of the actions ( ex: If I steal someone, I could be stolen or poor in an other life or this one)
Bad actions can make us doing other bad actions, same for good actions, like a spiral.

Fractals have no begging or end. The only beginning and end is the one we arbitrary impose to the formula.
Even plants or other forms have has beginning the one we chose.
For example, a flower is linked to all his predecessors and we decide when this is seed become a germ, and after a plant... There is no true separation.
In Mandelbrot set, the shapes are always similar but never the same.

I think our mind is fractal, because we recreate the same environment each instants with slight changes.


For the theory of the universe 'the invariant set hypothesis', I find it funny we could live on the border of the fractal, this place we can never find if we are zooming in it

[visual.bermarte]

[Thunderwave]

Please reference where you post pictures from...
This is from Bermarte from deviantArt.

<Quoted Image Removed>

[visual.bermarte]

Thanx, I have the permission

[Tglad]

AllIsOne the comparison with the mandelbrot is good, imagine you are a dot in the complex plane (your universe) and you iterate z^2+c without ever stopping (that is your laws of nature), then you suddenly become self aware, where will you be?
You won't be sitting at 0+0i because it is boring down there, there is no variation so you would not have become self aware.
You won't be shooting to infinity, that also lacks variation
You won't be anywhere other than the border because if you were, you would have converged to 0 or flung off towards infinity already.
So you must be a point on the border of the set, that is the only space that remains, the invariant set.
To go a step further, you wouldn't be in a repeating cycle because that wouldn't be interesting enough for self awareness, so you would be following a strange attractor, following a chaotic path that can never be really predicted.

[ker2x]

i reallt wish the buddhabrot had another name 
it's my favorite fractal and i don't believe in any kind of religion involving some kind of deity.   

[bib]

i reallt wish the buddhabrot had another name  
it's my favorite fractal and i don't believe in any kind of religion involving some kind of deity.  

I'm not Buddhist either but I think that if you think Buddha is some kind of deity, you are missing the point. He was not even a prophet, I think he was "just" a very wise man (some would say enlightened, but as a scientist I would say a philosopher). Will AllIsOne explain further and confirm?

[AllIsOne]

@ ker2X and bib

I think buddhabrot is named like this because of the similarity of the shapes.
I don't believe neither that Mandelbrot set have a direct link with Buddha.
I just like to make parallel between all of this because I believe that Buddhism is a very ''scientific'' religion ( look with objectivity to phenomenas ),
so I believe it have to obey to sames laws of the ''normal life''.

In my believes, Buddha is not just a philosopher.
It is a master of the science of the mind and developed technology to free our mind of ignorance.
This is something we have to experiment by ourself, it is why it is different from external science.
But, it is also very rational and logical, so we can discuss it by logic too.
He experimented his science and reached a state of mind that we cannot conceive, but that we can reach too.


This is the definition of a Buddha in our tradition
In general, ‘Buddha’ means ‘Awakened One’, someone who has awakened from the sleep of ignorance and sees things as they really are.
A Buddha is a person who is completely free from all faults and mental obstructions.
There are many people who have become Buddhas in the past, and many people will become Buddhas in the future.

There is nothing that Buddha does not know.
Because he has awakened from the sleep of ignorance and has removed all obstructions from his mind,
he knows everything of the past, present, and future, directly and simultaneously.

Moreover, Buddha has great compassion which is completely impartial, embracing all living beings without discrimination.
He benefits all living beings without exception by emanating various forms throughout the universe, and by bestowing his blessings on their minds.
Through receiving Buddha’s blessings, all being, even the lowliest animals, sometimes develop peaceful and virtuous states of mind.
...
 
ref: http://kadampa.org/en/reference/about-buddha