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Author Topic: Measuring magnification depth in MDZ  (Read 4535 times)
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kon16ov
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« on: September 14, 2010, 05:57:14 PM »

Howdy,

As this is my first post, I'll do a quick intro then get to the meat of the question.  I'm Phil, and I've been generating fractals off and on since MendelBlitz on my A500 up until now, and find myself drawn to Mandelbulber and MDZ.  My question revolves around MDZ:

How does one calculate the magnification level of the zoom? 

I've been poking around for a bit on the 'net and am finding that I guess I just don't know how to phrase the question so that the internet deities know what to tell me.  I apologize if this seems a bit brain dead or is an easy thing to find...I just find myself 15 zooms in and think, hmmm...how far in am I and wonder if it's just some simple math that I just haven't stumbled upon.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any knowledge that can be shared.

Phil
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Sockratease
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2010, 06:05:23 PM »

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I apologize if this seems a bit brain dead or is an easy thing to find...

And I apologize if this seems a bit brain dead or is an easy thing to find, ...  but - What is MDZ?

I don't know that program!
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kon16ov
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 06:10:05 PM »

Sorry...wandered into "assume they know what you're talking about mode," right off the hop.

MDZ == Mandelbrot Deep Zoom, currently using v0.0.6.
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Sockratease
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 06:28:00 PM »

No problem...

I'll see if I can find the program, and have a look   afro
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kon16ov
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 06:55:37 PM »

That'll work.  Here's its happy place:  http://www.jwm-art.net/mdz/

And, thanks for the welcome -- I've lurked far too long!

Maybe it would be more precise to ask if determining the magnification level was a factor of the Xmin, Xmax and Ymax that are provided in the output logs of the program.  For example:
Code:
xmin -1.44081180437249601749135195623963515019352571283867885128688311893654251824662464272844297503289867634634902060497552156448364257812499999999999999999999991
xmax -1.44081180437249601748379972539893348213593508975390205197995040252267277071501908522915372007529299924755150641431100666522979736328124999999999999999999997
ymax 1.45403249636145143222645058527536798847491281808295137349619478522779468231564363992934160729753045870893402025103569030761718749999999999999999999930008821e-7

Is that helpful at all?  I'm thinking the answer is sitting in front of me, but I'm looking at it from the wrong angle...
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Sockratease
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 06:26:30 PM »

I can't turn the numbers you posted into a zoom depth, nor it seems can I run MDZ (no linux   sad ).

But hopefully someone else here can help!

Good luck with it.
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kon16ov
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 05:01:11 PM »

I kind of figured with the numbers, but it was worth a shot, right?   Maybe the next version will have some gauge for reckoning mag/zoom factor.  Maybe some of the math gurus on here, know.   I only know enough about the numbers to be dangerous.

If you want to be bold, you can install VirtualBox and some happy flavor of linux so you can run it -- I recommend the program a lot.  The mag thing is my only kibitz.  Well, that and now having the ability to zoom in so far, I feel the need to do so, but that's not the program's fault.

Peace
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Thunderwave
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 06:22:00 PM »

I plan to install Linux soon, today hopefully.  I will check that out.  If you know of any other cool Linux programs, please let me know.
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 09:05:06 PM »

you can calculate your zooming values, by subtracting xmin/xmax, use the absolute value, this is the visible area,
and this is basically your zoom value, now consider a transformation wich maps 1 to this range, e.g. by multipling with that value
the 0's in the scale factor are the rough e^xx notation values, they just give you the amount of zeroes to put in before the numbers wink
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kon16ov
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2010, 03:32:42 PM »

@Thunderwave -- I heartily recommend it, as I have found that with a few exceptions, everything *I* want/need to do, I can do natively and that which I can't, for the most part, WINE helps bridge the gap.  Now, anything that requires the newer .Net framework things get dicey and that's where I would recommend a VirtualBox VM of WindowsXP or 7.  I've been running that setup for ~7 months, now, and it has actually helped me with programming as the apps I've been working on in .NET I've been able to bring into Mono C# with little effort.  At any rate, as far as programs,

Gimp is, of course, your friend.  It's not PhotoShop, but it's more than usable (I've used it since it was a 0.x program and still get lost...by the same token, I've used PhotoShop since v1.2 and get lost in it, a lot, too...).  For non-linear editing of your anims, I would definitely recommend KDEnLive.  I've been using it for the past few weeks and found that it only *really* gets crabby when you import 5000 frames at a time.  I know you do music, so I would also recommend Audacity.  It's the only program I've found (Windows or otherwise) that can fine-tune it's latency timings to a point to allow me to do multitrack recording with my DigiTech RP350 via USB. 

Now, for the nitty gritty:  MDZ is fantastic.  It's interface is a little lean, but what it lacks in UI refinement it makes up in the ability to throw 1024+ bits of arbitrary precision at your zoom.  From there, the old standbys are Fraqtive, Xaos and GnoFract4D -- which has the added bonus of having maps you can use in MDZ! -- and they're all solid.  My only kibitz with those three is that when it comes to deep zooms, you get to "um, no." after about 14 zooms, usually, somewhere around 10^12.  For the 3D side, I *really* like Mandelbulber.  My brain hasn't figured out how to do that anim side, yet, but the stills are gorgeous and it's interface is pretty simple to use AND the palette tool is really slick as you can load a palette from another image. VERY cool.  Of course, I've also discovered that some images will blow it up, but you know...

Wine is your friend and make sure you get the latest build.  It handles UF5, Apophysis and ChaosPro 4 very well.  Mandelbulb3D also works like a champ under WINE.  I fact, all of my successful anims have come out of it.

Hope that helps and I hope your installation went painlessly.  What distro did you decide upon?

@Trifox -- cool, thanks.  Of course, now my right-brained self is looking at that saying, "well, that makes sense," and then turning itself off. smiley  I'll mess with that and see what I can come up with.  I may bounce a practice one up here just to make sure that something didn't get translated in my brain improperly.  The instructions seem simple enough, so I don't forsee that being too much of a problem.  We shall see.  Thanks,  again!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 03:35:45 PM by kon16ov » Logged
Thunderwave
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2010, 08:48:24 PM »

Unfortunately, the installer doesn't recognize the cd device.  I tried to change it and I lost connection to the device, while changing it I accidentally removed the RAID1 device and then I lost RAID.  I am now reinstalling everything and building RAID again.  Then I'm back to trying to figure out how to install Ubuntu, next by USB.

I want to install Ubuntu 10.10.  My Non-GUI friend said it was the best.
I'm excited to try all of those plus there's a whole art/video/music Ubuntu Suite.  That looks awesome!!! cheesy

Thanks for the list!  I already use Gimp and Audacity.
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kon16ov
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warep kon16ov
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 02:09:31 PM »

@Thunderwave -- how did it go?  Were you able to get up and running?  I run LinuxMint mainly because it takes Ubuntu -- in my case 10.04 -- and makes it less crabby during the installation.  It installs from a live CD so it *shouldn't* wig out when it comes to devices since it has to detect in order to boot.  Hopefully, all's on the up and up and you're up and running.

@Trifox -- and this is why I shouldn't try math prior to coffee...  In looking at your explanation, again -- and you'll have to pardon my mental block, here (there are reasons I was a psych major...really) -- would I be subtracting the min FROM the max or vice versa?  My brain says the former, but it also tried to get away with using Kruskal's algorithm to solve a finite math node theory problem...  As an example of what I'm thinking to see what it should be:
xmin -7.7807584720532449411643818e-1
xmax -7.7807584720530722648514244e-1
gives me
abs(-7.7807584720530722648514244e-1 − -7.7807584720532449411643818e-1)
which yields a result of
1.726763129574E-14
If I go the other way, it looks like, of course:
abs(-7.7807584720532449411643818e-1 − -7.7807584720530722648514244e-1)
which gives us
1.726763129574E-14
*blink*
From this, it would seem to be a zoom factor of 0.000000000000001726763129574 because of the negative ee value, so I'm thinking that either I'm missing something (entirely possible...) or, well, I'm missing something, since most zoom factors I see are listed in the positive exponent range.  I feel a bit like Dr. Venkmen being scolded by Dr. Stanz, "You never studied..."   embarrass
Thanks, in advance, for any insight. 

Phil
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 04:57:56 PM »

@kon
the order is arbitrary if you you use absolute values wink, and i wrote to use absolute values cheesy

abs(a-b)=abs(b-a)

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kon16ov
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warep kon16ov
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 01:13:57 PM »

OK - I think I've got it!  embarrass  Thanks for your patience.  Of course, I could throw some "gah!" in there and ask about programs like UF that use left and right (and center) rather than x and y and real and imaginary...thankfully, though, UF does the voodoo for me.
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Thunderwave
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 11:22:52 PM »

@kon16ov

I have struggled installing Ubuntu.
Apparently I can't install it with RAID on both OS.
They can't share a RAID Drive and I can't get rid of RAID.

So no luck.  I would get rid of Windows but I need it for work.
I will try on a different PC, when I have one.  smiley
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