My initial ideas for continued development to MB3D

[thargor6]

Hi all,
I have been criticized to not already outlined a bunch of ideas how to contribute to the MB3D-project and not have been proved my "coding chops" yet

Okay, to be honest, I have MUCH underestimated the tension of all of this. There is much of expectation here, and I can also feel some level of anger and frustration.
When I see how long nothing happened, I can understand some of this. But please also understand me, I'm now about 2-3 weeks involved into this at all.


However, of course I have ideas, and I even heard the usual "stop here"-comments, because I sometimes tend to "revolutionize" too much ;-)
I have the following three concrete ideas:
1. Increase the number of formulas and params for formulas. I have spoken about this with our formula-inventor Luca, and he had some good arguments for this.
2. Create more bokeh options (this is my own idea I have not spoken about with others, yet)
3. Create an interface, where users can create formulas (without much coding involved, especially not ASM). From my experience users love such an ability a lot. And I heard already many voices, that this would be even more true for MB3D.

An additional, yet vague idea, is to create a new interface, as this is my primary strength. But, I know that many people like the current interface, so I'm thinking about a new optional interface (i. e. you can switch between new and classic). My goal would be to have anything related to design one single fractal into one window.

I also saw already some of the many feature-requests here, and think many, can be done. But two of them not:
 - true 64Bit version: very hard, because of the current code-base, probably needs a complete rewrite
 - GPU-renderer: does not really make sense in the current environment (Delphi/ASM). It would make more sense to rewrite from scratch, but then it would be even make more senso to contribute to Mandelbulber/Fragmentarium


Any further suggestions are welcome, of course.

Andreas

[LMarkoya]

Sounds great Andreas, I second the request for a mutagen system

[laser blaster]

I also saw already some of the many feature-requests here, and think many, can be done. But two of them not:
 - true 64Bit version: very hard, because of the current code-base, probably needs a complete rewrite
 - GPU-renderer: does not really make sense in the current environment (Delphi/ASM). It would make more sense to rewrite from scratch, but then it would be even make more senso to contribute to Mandelbulber/Fragmentarium.

If that's the case, then why not contribute to Mandelbulber, or Fragmentarium? To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to work on an unwieldy codebase that will need to be scrapped or rewritten at some point in the future anyway. Is the interface the main reason why people prefer MB3D to other programs? Because, if that's the case, then it may make more sense in the long run to create an all-new "clone"of MB3D, with a similar interface, and with optional GPU rendering to offer even faster speeds.

[DarkBeam]

But the idea and concepts started as a short term project

[cKleinhuis]

@thargor all the best for your ambitious plans!

if you have a real concept for bringing in formula nodes or something, try that but i believe its harder than you might think, because the rendering pipeline is optimised for this, but perhaps you can implement an gpu rendering pipeline, but doing with delphi ... humm ... tricky i think

in my eyes the approach of mandelbulber is the way to go, they already have implemented an gpu based distance estimation module, getting this to be importable by mb3d (because of the more intuitive hybridisation ) would be great but i think it would be more than a year of hard work

at the beggining i would suggest sticking to minor adjustments like more formulas, and a more intuitive formula order editor like one postet here, to be able to swap formulas instead of shifting would already be a great improvement

as well to include totally new formula types like pre-post transforms

but whatever you do do it with fun! i personally underestimated how big the mandelbulb3d crowd is today, we had like 3000 direct downloads on a single day when luca posted the last formula collection with mb3d

[Madman]

Very nice to hear your challenging plans Andreas! Hats off to you for picking up the development of M3D!! I hope you will not be discouraged by some of the, in my view totally uncalled for, comments from some forum members and will be able to put your ideas to work. I'm sure to silent majority supports your efforts completely and will embrace every new version you will produce! I know I will 

I love the idea of adding bokeh. Maybe you can also have a look at increasing the "reality-feel" of the FOV settings? If it's not asking too much...  Everything in your own time of course 

Thank you for picking this up Andreas!

[bib]

My goal would be to have anything related to design one single fractal into one window.

Good idea. switching back and forth all the time between the main window and the navi would make the workflow much easier.

[0Encrypted0]

An additional, yet vague idea, is to create a new interface, as this is my primary strength. But, I know that many people like the current interface, so I'm thinking about a new optional interface (i. e. you can switch between new and classic). My goal would be to have anything related to design one single fractal into one window.

The "3D Navi" (Navigator) has evolved over time to add numerous controls.
People still keep asking to add this or that extra item to the "Navi".
It actually makes more sense for the Navigator to be the main interface with all the controls except Post Processing.
Like the current Monte Carlo render window, the Render would be in a second window or tab containing the Post Processing controls as well as duplicate Lighting controls .

One thing to keep in mind is the ability for the user to resize the real time Navigator screen smaller for slower/older computers.

Also, I would like to see Mandelbulb 3D kept fully portable without external dependencies.
Do you think this will be possible or will you be using Java Runtime?

[3dickulus]

5 cents

a quick google returns some REALLY interesting things that may be...

...of interest...
http://www.clootie.ru/Projects/nvidia_cg.html

...important?...
https://code.google.com/p/delphi-shader/

4. A program that converts GLSL code to Delphi code.

[lenord]

Mutation generation may be interesting, hate the idea of changing the UIF though but if it's selectable guess it's OK. The UIF, speed of render and the Navigator are the big drawing points for MB3d, the convoluted UIF on Bulber and no Navigator not to mention the Render speed are the reasons it never took off like MB3D.  Developing my own formulas are of no interest to me but I know a lot of people would like to which is fine to have that capability. I was thinking a couple of more Lights available would be useful sometimes and maybe a scaler on the Lightmap function like there is on the Surface Map, just a thought.....also in DE Combinate Mode the capability of combining 2 Hybrids instead only one formula with a Hybrid also in DE Combinate Mode adding a couple more formula slots for that Mode. In the Post Processing there is the option of calculating Transparency on d.IFS components only, that option would be extremely handy to have on Reflections also, that's one option I would dearly love to see. These are just my thoughts off the top of my head anything you come up with Andreas we all will be glad to try and be happy for.

[bib]

...also in DE Combinate Mode the capability of combining 2 Hybrids instead only one formula with a Hybrid

You can do that already. In DE Combinate mode you have a counter that appears and allows to select at which slot starts the 2nd hybrid.

[lenord]

You can do that already. In DE Combinate mode you have a counter that appears and allows to select at which slot starts the 2nd hybrid.

I thought that only designated where the calculations for the second part of the Combinate started you can still only have one formula in Part one not a 3 formula Hybrid and another 3 formula hybrid....or have I been looking at that wrong all this time......

[thargor6]

Also, I would like to see Mandelbulb 3D kept fully portable without external dependencies.
Do you think this will be possible or will you be using Java Runtime?

This (the first) is also my plan, but I think I will utilize a (free) library which offers more/improved UI-controls.
Java will not be involved at all.

[bib]

I thought that only designated where the calculations for the second part of the Combinate started you can still only have one formula in Part one not a 3 formula Hybrid and another 3 formula hybrid....or have I been looking at that wrong all this time......

Try that!
Mandelbulb3Dv18{
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4uCkz3CcN/UvNPcv..EsUa3feeWCNqGQIJ36wk8EwyLsUa3f................................
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{Titel: main paras~}

[lenord]

Yep your right I was just doing some experimenting too and it works. Don't know how I misinterpreted that all this time...I'd blame old age but it's more than likely the Weed... opens a whole new area for me, okiedoke scratch that it always has been able to do that...Thanks bib I appreciate that