Newbie Hooked but Frustrated

[kameelian]

Hi folks,
 
what a brilliant site I have stumbled upon! Some of the 'designs' are out of this world.
 
I have been amazed by fractals for many years - and being completely lost and disappointed with ChaosPro circa 2003,
it is only now that I have acquired the PC power and programs by which  to try and create them - especially videos in 3D.
So I'm a newbie++ but with years of admiration.
 
I came to this forum via Youtube Ultra Fractal videos but have since acquired mandelbulb3D and mandelbulber to try and see
what works best for me. (I also have MMFwip3D - which I have not yet tried - but assume is a plug-in for Ultra Fractal{?}).
 
Now I'm well hooked - but the programs can be so infuriating (as well as slow).
 
Creating the formulas is way over my head...yet. There is so much to learn and do...Steep learning curves are one thing but...
it seems, much of the documentation is not yet written, so it is all very much trial and error. This would be fine if the program
(in this case mandelbulb) was consistent - but it can be erratic and even the same files can load differently each time [!] Why?
It can be difficult to get back to a previous condition - and I save various changes as I go - but this does not always help.
 
I already have a wish list of improvements, loads of 'how-to' questions (and gripes) but I don't want to be screaming from my pram
too soon - so I'll keep it short for now.

I guess I have to go elsewhere to start asking questions.

cheers
Kam

[Sockratease]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

To touch on a few of your points, fractal art has always been a slow process - don't let that discourage you!  Most of us find other stuff to do during the long render times.

As for the files looking different, that could be due to different versions of the program.  Jesse is always updating M3D - so that may be part of the problem.

Very few of us create formulas, we just play with other people's formulas, tweak the parameters and viewpoints, lighting, etc.  So don't worry about that either!

And feel free to ask whatever questions you may have!

Also look through the sub-forums for whatever program you like, and see if your suggestions have already been made.  If so, feel free to add your voice to the choir.  If not, by all means - feel free to post  oO

I look forward to seeing your work.  Our annual contest ends very soon, so there's still time to enter something!

[David Makin]

Hi and welcome. With respect to use of the 3D fractal programs at the moment the interfaces probably still need some improvement (I think Jesse and Buddhi would both agree) but for 3D that takes an awful lot of work (hence the cost of programs like 3D Studio, Maya etc.) but as far as formulas are concerned unless you're particularly interested in creating your own or improving your own programming skills then I wouldn't worry too much about it and just use those that others have created.
Yes MMFWip3D is a "ufm" formula file for Ultra Fractal though you'll probably find using that even more awkward than Mandelbulber or Mandelbulb3D plus it's not going to be as fast - in both cases because UF itself wasn't really designed with 3D fractals in mind and is more generic than the custom 3D programs (which are hence better optimised).
One thing that will help you get a hang of formulas to use in Jesse and Buddhi's software is to become acquainted with 2D formulas that are effectively counterparts of the 3D ones you try - here I'd recommend using Ultra Fractal for investigation as that gives you access to escape-time IFS in 2D (and 3D) as well as more normal escape-time formulas and has formula mixing options similar to the 3D formula mixing.

[lenord]

I don't know about UF and it's 3d capabilities since I don't use it but I have used Bulber and MB3d. Of the two 3d Box/Bulb programs I find MB3D the easiest to learn and most user friendly as well as the fastest (by far) Rendering, it's all a matter of preference. Also MB3D has tutorials, by Hal Tinney especially at DeviantArt to learn from and also a huge array of Shared Parameters to help get you going.

[David Makin]

The speed issue is why I recommended trying similar formulas in 2D to gain experience of the expected results because they will render considerably faster than any in 3D (unless using a GPU renderer for 3D), and for this you can use an unregistered copy of UF (or indeed just use ChaosPro since many UF formulas work in that too).

[kameelian]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies.

OK, I won't worry too much yet about formulas, but I do wonder at what point an image can be considered original.
We may feel pleased as punch when we manipulate a formula into something we like, but if we are all starting with the same batch of formula 'seeds', someone, somewhere will likely recognise many things we create and think are unique. I guess folk will say so soon enough if I offer a few images here soon.

Sokratease, I'm not sure about the different versions of programs being the issue - What I meant was: the same data loaded into the same program later on the same day produced imagery nothing like it produced earlier. I don't know if it was due to a remnant of a previous attempt and I need to 'flush' the system somehow. It's all learning isn't it.

Later
Kam

[Sockratease]

I'm not sure about the different versions of programs being the issue - What I meant was: the same data loaded into the same program later on the same day produced imagery nothing like it produced earlier

That absolutely should never happen!

I hate to attribute it to user error, but that sure sounds like the case here.  If you have *any* files that show this behaviour repeatably, Please post them here.  I am certain Jesse would want to see them so he can figure out what's going on.

As for originality, just look through the galleries here and elsewhere.  You'll see different takes on the same stuff, but nobody ever claims any of it is unoriginal  (unless you take the example formulas and post them with no attempt at alteration whatsoever!).  The key is originality in perspective, coloring, and the like.  There really are only a handful of actual formulas to work with and none of the 3Mandelbulb/box software has an actual formula editor anyhow - so that alone should prove the point   

Have fun, and just find stuffs you enjoy, explore it, and post your results.

[Jesse]

What I meant was: the same data loaded into the same program later on the same day produced imagery nothing like it produced earlier. I don't know if it was due to a remnant of a previous attempt and I need to 'flush' the system somehow. It's all learning isn't it.

Maybe you changed some parameters before you saved it, and if you rerender later on, the new parameters are used and the image is different?

[lenord]

Sockratease is absolutely right in saying not to worry about similiarities in works to others as long as it's not a 1:1 copy. Similiarities are are unavoidable in Fractals of any type. it's all in the numbers and nobody owns them.

[kameelian]

Ok guys, thanks the replies.

I'll find out how to upload some files and start a new thread called something like 'is this code corrupt?'

regards
Kam