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Author Topic: So if we live in a Multiverse, then why...  (Read 4424 times)
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Chillheimer
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« on: September 17, 2013, 09:14:45 PM »

..why are we stuck in exactly this one universe that we feel to live in?

If for each minimal variation there exists a separate universe, and therefore there is a universe where you are, let's say "emperor of the world" or the richest guy ever, or just smart enough to understand this question wink
- then why are you not living in exactly that universe where everything is perfect, why are you stuck in this one? Why are you not that other you? what keeps you bound to this track?

 huh?

btw: I believe that it's true that we live in a multiverse, and I also think that this is probably the most fractal thing there could be.. and besides that I'm pretty happy here - this question really bothers me..
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 10:21:59 PM »

my five cents is: it is just linear, multiverses is a nice thought, every milli or femto second billions of new streaks would be created automatically, we are living in a chaotic-deterministic universe, not really predictable, but following rules, and so, if you think this further, it would mean that the multiverses you are talking about are rather a shift of physical properties, e.g. Pi is minimal different

haha, just my five cents on that wink
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 01:14:55 AM »

I'm a believer in multiverse... but it isn't that radical... everybody is happy with Feynmann's path integral version of quantum field theory, where every possible action happens on each particle.. so there is already a multiverse used here, people just don't like extrapolating it up to large scale objects... so they invent 'wave function collapse' which causes all sorts of questions and confusion, Everett (many worlds guy) showed that this wasn't necessary.

Quote
why are you not living in exactly that universe where everything is perfect
You could ask a similar question in one universe... why wasn't I born the richest person in the world? Why am I me and not someone else? why do I remain me and not become someone else?
I don't think a multiverse causes these philosophical questions.

My answer is... why WOULD you be the richest person ever? that is surely more unusual than just being born an average kinda person.
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Why are you not that other you?
Imagine 100 universes with 100 Chillheimers, each will have their own memories and have grown and learnt to have an identity... every one may be asking 'why am I me, and not one of the others?', no-one will be saying 'why am I the other Chillheimer and not me?'
Quote
what keeps you bound to this track?
Decoherence. At tiny scales all the different universes (which we can think of as a wave if we like) inferfere with eachother, just like waves do... at larger scales the complexity is much greater so that any other 'object' from 'another universe' will be so chaotically different that the affect of that object on yours is almost non-existent. An example is a laser vs a light... a laser is very simple (the beam is like a single wave) so two similar lasers can interfere and produce an interference pattern, in some areas cancelling eachother out.... but a beam of white light is a complex noise of different wavelengths, so two white torches do not interfere with eachother.
What have waves got to do with matter? All particles follow wave equations just like light does.
So... Chillheimer1 has almost no physical affect upon Chillheimer2.... unless of course you are very simple like a single electron or something.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 01:46:43 AM by Tglad » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 11:32:02 AM »

    ..why are we stuck in exactly this one universe that we feel to live in?
    If for each minimal variation there exists a separate universe, and therefore there is a universe where you are,
    let's say "emperor of the world" or the richest guy ever, or just smart enough to understand this question  wink
    - then why are you not living in exactly that universe where everything is perfect, why are you stuck in this one?
    Why are you not that other you? what keeps you bound to this track?

Nobody but the individual that created this universe may leave, because that is the way it was created.  All things, including other individuals, are nothing more than the thoughts of the one that created this universe.  The only thing we have to worry about is when that one individual finally dies, and everything goes away, just like a dream.

If you create your own universe, then you can populate it any way you see fit.    cheesy
 
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Chillheimer
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 12:21:14 PM »

If you create your own universe, then you can populate it any way you see fit.    cheesy

But if each minute decision of myself creates a new universe, am I not alread somewhat the creator of this universe and should somehow be able to influence or change into one of these parallel-me's?
Yeah, far out, this stuff. But keeps me thinking.

...so there is already a multiverse used here, people just don't like extrapolating it up to large scale objects...
I do.. wink
Seriously, if there are infinite possibilities, how could size matter? even if it's extremely unlikely - it will happen some'where' in infinity..

I don't think a multiverse causes these philosophical questions.
Hm.. then what caused me asking this question?

My answer is... why WOULD you be the richest person ever? that is surely more unusual than just being born an average kinda person.
and my follow up question is: If there is an infinite numer of universes for every minute change - why would it matter how "unusual" something is?
Ok, it would be strange to live in a universe where Hitler married Marilyn Monroe, but in the last documentary I watched about multiverse some (serious?) scientist said that this would be a possible consequence of multiverses.

'Decoherence....
Well described to a physics&math-amateur like me.
Is this your own view or is it the "common sense" of modern science?
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 01:33:43 PM »

Quote
'Decoherence....
Well described to a physics&math-amateur like me.
Is this your own view or is it the "common sense" of modern science?
This is from the many worlds interpretation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation, though several other interpretations also use decoherence. It is considered a mainstream interpretation.

Particles are actually waves just like light: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation
"the wave function is the most complete description that can be given to a physical system. Solutions to Schrödinger's equation describe not only molecular, atomic, and subatomic systems, but also macroscopic systems, possibly even the whole universe"

I think the biggest problem people have with many worlds is that they think the universe is branching millions of times every microsecond (with every decoherence)... but this is not really true, if every particle is really a wave at the shortest scales then all the universe is like a big rippling sea of waves... decoherence is when parts of a set of waves stop interfering with each other so act independently and appear as though they're in different universes. But there aren't physically more universes in the sense of more matter, it is just parts becoming independent (I'm almost certain the reverse also happens).
"A total superposition of the global or universal wavefunction still exists (and remains coherent at the global level)"- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence

So the universe is a like big ocean of waves where basically everything and anything happens multiple times. But NOT equally commonly... some events are much more common... for example light going in a straight line without gravity is more common than it bending without gravity... that's what's great about path integral quantum field theory, particles can go anywhere they like, at any speed, even backwards in time, they can split and/or recombine... but if you combine all the possibilities together the peak occurence gives light going in straight lines, reflecting off mirrors at the correct angles, refractions, forces between particles... well pretty much everything bar gravity...  If you have 6 hours to spare I recommend watching Feynman's New Zealand lectures on youtube, the sound is bad but it explains a lot, and is for a normal audience.

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