But is it Art?

[asimes]

Not sure if this topic is long dead, but I'll chip in my thoughts.

Art is a term that cannot be defined. Individuals can determine that they have a meaning for art that makes sense to them but it tends to simply boil down to opinion. Something most art that would be categorized as "Gallery Art" or "Contemporary Art" seems to require:

- Not being exactly defined. Some level of mystery is almost preferable because a viewer has to make it up as they "experience" the piece. In this sense fractal art struggles because it is extremely well defined. In fact, it is so well defined that someone with sufficient math / programming skills can reproduce a fractal artwork exactly if they know the settings / input.

- Not being purely digital. Many people poo-poo art without second thought if it was completely computer generated. This to me is a bizarre tendency but one I think is very true. It happened to me quite a lot in college (I recently graduated The School of the Art Institute) as I was in the Art and Tech department there and made programmatic work. People seem to have some kind of bias for handmade work. The other problem with digital art is that it can be copied or reproduced as mentioned in the last bullet (which also should not discredit work but does).

- Not being too technical. The amount of learning required to understand what is happening in a fractal image is beyond most people's understanding. Almost no one (short of maybe some people on this forum) looks at a fractal image and understands what is going on. They either label it as "math" and then decide that math and art are two different things or exclaim "That looks like a such-and-such!".

I don't label fractal images as strictly being art myself. They are often beautiful and usually provoke more thought than something I would see at a gallery or museum but they don't challenge how I think about the world or provide me with a new point of view. On the other hand they are a lot of fun if you are technically minded and a method of creating composition just like invented landscape or still life representation aesthetics. In this sense I prefer to think of fractal art as I way to improve my sense of image generation but not concept sharing.

[Erisian]

Is it art?  Who cares!  As an artist, my only concern is to express something in a way that satisfies me.  I think you would be stretching things to call a fractal "art" by itself but there is an art to in the composition, colouring etc.  I once expressed to Kraftwerk that the simplest blob could look good if carefully composed and coloured, which is why I work in greyscale until I find an interesting shape.  How broadly do you want to use the term?  The building I live in is art.  Making sense of reality is art.  Bringing up children is art etc.  Art is basically having an idea and expressing it and that means everybody is an artist and all art is real art.

[Alef]

But is it Art?

Most of this have to do with art as teen paintings in staircase room. Most of are just pics, pastime, whatever, some pictures withaout meaning as almoust all of deviant art content. But this don't means, there are no art at all, there are some great pieces of art.

PHI is sayd to be beautifull, realy but is this so? I think, other ratios too can create eyecandy as good as PHI. I think, some symmetry is more beautifull than phi.

[Alef]

This is art
http://www.ultrafractal.com/showcase/etienne.html

Most of deviantart pictures are not the art.

[Sidicus]

Whenever you ask people to define art, it is never a short answer.

Until now.

Art = Things that humans make.


Done.

[David Makin]

Whenever you ask people to define art, it is never a short answer.

Until now.

Art = Things that humans make.


Done.

I would disagree.
The Ultra Fractal mailing list has gone through a process of answering the question "Are fractals art" many times - the answer of course being that it's a stupid question, one may as well ask are pencil marks on paper "art", the correct question (if any) would be "can fractals be art" to which of course the answer is yes !
Anyway after considering "art" itself my own conclusion is:
If *any* human thinks something is "art" then it is "art". Whether it's good or bad art is an entirely different question.
To put it another way - the recognition of the "art" in something by a human defines the something as being art *at least to them* - whether this is recognised by others is irrelevant to the definition *but not to the value* in either an aesthetic or economic sense - these of course depend on the opinions of others.

For instance I reluctantly accept that a pile of bricks with one slightly dislodged (Tate years ago) is "art" though personally I think it's cr*p - the same goes for an installation that's just a room impersonating a fridge by having the light go on and off automatically......
Of course some would say disliking these makes me a philistine !

[asimes]

I think a problem with these kinds of conversations is that "Art" is way too broad of a term. It might be more meaningful to talk about specific fields of art. Good fractal art can successfully achieve art status as composition for example but may have a difficult time comparing to say that "pile of bricks" (which, I also think is crap). However, there are many examples of good Contemporary Art, some of which are mathematical (Sol Lewitt comes to mind), which I think Fractal Art does struggle to represent.

[stereoman]

No, it is not art,
                    It´s an artistic procedure, and, as such, can be used to do a lot of different things, cover a canvas with pigment can be art, or not, this depend on a lot of other things.
                   

[taurus]

<snip>
cover a canvas with pigment can be art, or not, this depend on a lot of other things.
                   

well spoken!

[matty686]

I for one am very good at expressing exactly what i want in my fractals

I make mine with Photoshop by copying and pasting and measuring using "smart objects"

people have told me this is called the "infinite copy machine method"   (aka old school fractals )

but I am sure many of you mathematicians know exactly what you are doing too

I have tried some fractal math and find it a lot easier than regular algebra mainly because of the visual feedback

my favorite programs for mathematical fractals are ultra-fractal and   apophysis-7x for the most part i use them for fractal science (aka manufacturing parts for my other fractal style)

and leave the art to the "infinite copy machine method" but I can see how you make art with them (I am just too much of a control-freak to do it my self)

i
     

[John Smith]

Great Scott! How many different ways are there to say "yes" and "no" to a yes-or-no question?  Oh, well.  I learned a definition for art in my senior year of high school that I shall never forget, because it is simple, and because it makes sense: Art is Communication.  Therefore, for something to be art, it must communicate.  I would go further by saying it ought to communicate something that cannot necessarily be stated in words, or at least in quite a few.  I'm sure you've heard it: "A picture is worth a thousand words."  If those words happen to be gibberish, sorry, you're not communicating.

So the big question is: Does what we post on Fractal Forums communicate?  I say yes.  Every picture on this forum was deliberately chosen out of limitless possibilities.  Why was it chosen?  Because something about it appealed to someone, and in stead of saying, "Ooh, that's nice," they took that image that appealed to them, arranged it with colors and lighting that appealed them, and posted it.  What are they communicating?  Themselves, and what appeals to them.  Taurus's work, for example, is, to me anyway, is instantly recognizable, because certain fractals appeal especially to him.  The same applies to everyone else's work.  Communicating is the reason we post these images.
 
Forgive my waxing eloquent.  I know I'm a new guy, but I couldn't leave it alone.

[eiffie]

LAR I agree with your definition but have to add gibberish is sometimes the only way to communicate confusion - disorientation. Most of my favorite art contains elements of gibberish.

[John Smith]

The point is well taken.  My bad.  In my defense I did state that art should be able to communicate more than mere words, and its true: some people like gibberish.