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Author Topic: Mandel Machine  (Read 44029 times)
Description: A highly efficient Mandelbrot set explorer
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Kalles Fraktaler
Fractal Senior
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Posts: 1458



kallesfraktaler
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« Reply #300 on: October 02, 2014, 12:31:44 PM »

Here is another tricky location.

The problem is that series approximation need to have a very low tolerance or the upper right corner will be rendered incorrectly.
In Kalles Fraktaler it is rendered with extra, good looking though however incorrect, spirals.
In Mandel Machine there are some stains around the spirals.

I have encountered this kind of situation before, and therefore I added the checkbox "Approximation low tolerance" in the "Iterations" dialog of KF - this checkbox is checked per default, and then it is solved.
This often results in somewhat less iterations to be able to be skipped by series approximation, and since it is a very rare situation I made it possible to disable the low tolerance.

The previous location was rendered correctly in MM though, however this new one is not...

My thresholds is 0.00001 for low tolerance, and 0.001 for not.
But I believe we are handling the series approximation differently so it might not be relevant.

* glitch54.kfr.txt (6.8 KB - downloaded 155 times.)
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Want to create DEEP Mandelbrot fractals 100 times faster than the commercial programs, for FREE? One hour or one minute? Three months or one day? Try Kalles Fraktaler http://www.chillheimer.de/kallesfraktaler
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Botond Kósa
Fractal Lover
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Posts: 233



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« Reply #301 on: October 02, 2014, 04:58:29 PM »

The stains in MM are caused by the usage of single-precision floats in this location. The image is rendered correctly after unchecking "Use lower scale data types" in the Computation toolbox. It seems that the limited precision or range of floats sometimes results in glitches that are not detected by Pauldelbrot's method.
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Check out my Mandelbrot set explorer:
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claude
Fractal Bachius
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Posts: 563



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« Reply #302 on: October 02, 2014, 06:58:44 PM »

I wanted to try this but it seems that installing wine64 on GNU/Linux Debian Stable isn't easy (I didn't fancy upgrading to Testing today) sad

Anyway, here's a vote (not that it counts for much given the above) for the distance estimate feature.  Equation (cool in my http://mathr.co.uk/mandelbrot/perturbation.pdf can be used to find the initial point for interior distance estimates too, example image: http://mathr.co.uk/mandelbrot/perturbation.jpg
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SeryZone
Strange Attractor
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Posts: 253


Contemplate...


« Reply #303 on: October 03, 2014, 07:53:25 PM »

I can't render large images. For example, 8760x4320, 4xAA. Program is 'ready' everytime, but I can't do something! It hangs out and... And all! Why?
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stardust4ever
Fractal Bachius
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Posts: 513



« Reply #304 on: October 03, 2014, 11:54:48 PM »

I can't render large images. For example, 8760x4320, 4xAA. Program is 'ready' everytime, but I can't do something! It hangs out and... And all! Why?
Your image is 8760 x 4320 x 4 x 4 = 605491200 pixels. Mandel Machine has a hard limit set at 536 megapixels (maximum resolution for bitmap; PNG I think can be larger) or more precisely, images must be less than 2^29 pixel count.

Also I would like to see intermediate options for 3x3, 6x6, and 12x12 antialias. Sometimes you need extra pixels, but not 4x as much. Also this would help render larger images with quality antialias settings. Seryzone's case would fit under 536 megapixels with 3x3 antialias, and the image quality would be 2.25x smoother (less noise) than using 2x2 AA.

Myself, I render at huge resolutions compared to the target and scale down by integer ratios using bilinear filtering in GIMP. I get a massively detailed PNG where I can see finer albeit noisy details, which scales quite well to a poster sized printable resolution.

For instance, render a 4x3 aspect scene @25600x19200 (491 megapixels). Save as PNG. Open in GIMP. Scale to 25% or 6400x4800 using bilinear (IMO bilinear is ideal for fractal data if kept to integer ratios and compresses to PNG with slightly better efficacy than bicubic - use bicubic for photo data or non-integer ratio resizing). End result is a 6400x4800 poster render with high quality 4x4 antialias. Perfect for printing and you can still scale the source further to 3200x2400 (8x8 AA) for web upload.

Word of caution when working with gigantic images, make sure you have at least 8GB or RAM and keep only one application open at a time. A 32-bit 23040x23040 PNG image can take 2 gigs to open in RAM. Close Mandel Machine before you open the huge PNG image in GIMP, and do not preload it in Windows photo preview. Also best to disable thumbnail view in whatever folder where you are storing the huge PNGs. Having a ~500 MP render still open in Mandel Machine, click to preview, then open with GIMP, was too much for my 8Gb Windows 8.1 laptop which started to thrash my harddrive cache because I used up all the available RAM.

That was enough that I finally upgraded my 8-core AMD desktop to a 16Gb kit Raedon 1866 Memory dual channel pair (8Gb x2 DIMM). Very nice fast RAM but you still have to tweak the timings a bit in BIOS to maximize performance.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 12:06:54 AM by stardust4ever » Logged
SeryZone
Strange Attractor
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Posts: 253


Contemplate...


« Reply #305 on: October 04, 2014, 07:17:36 PM »

I don't care! I render images less than 500MP but program hangs out! And I render 16:9 images. And memory works on a limit!
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stardust4ever
Fractal Bachius
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Posts: 513



« Reply #306 on: October 05, 2014, 12:42:14 AM »

I don't care! I render images less than 500MP but program hangs out! And I render 16:9 images. And memory works on a limit!
For 16x9, try 30720x17280. This is 1920x1080 aspect ratio multiplied by 16 and comes out to 530 megapixels.

The memory hole is fixed now. MandelMachine bases it's memory footprint based on the amount of available RAM.

How many Gigabytes do you have on your PC? 8Gb? 16Gb? If you're running low, consider buying a 16Gb dual channel kit (or a 24 Gb triple channel kit if using an Intel i-series processor) yes, RAM = expensive, but if you need more, you need more. I have no regrets spending $170 upgrading my AMD rig with the dual channel 1866Mhz Raedon 16Gb kit. That should tide me over for a couple more years, which thanks to perturbation theory it doesn't take days, weeks, or months to render stuff anymore.

You can also use a BAT file to manually specify the amount of RAM Mandel Machine can use. Go a bit over what you have installed because Mandel Machine doesn't necessarily use all of it. If Windows is bloating too much, try booting into safe mode. That should free a tiny bit more memory up for Mandel Machine. But if Mandel Machine starts caching and thrashing your hard drive, you'll need to either install more memory or render smaller sizes.
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3dickulus
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
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Posts: 1558



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« Reply #307 on: October 05, 2014, 12:58:55 AM »

Could an image be rendered in pieces and reassembled eg: 16x16 chunks for 30720x17280 is one 1920x1080 chunk at a time thus removing at least the constraint of having reference data, iteration data and image data in memory all at once and just having reference data, iteration data and one chunk of image data in memory... or perhaps a "Render to Disk File" option?
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SeryZone
Strange Attractor
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Posts: 253


Contemplate...


« Reply #308 on: October 05, 2014, 09:49:27 AM »

LAPTOP:
Intel Processor (4-core + 4 virtual cores = 8 cores) i5, support avx2.0
8GB RAM
1920x1080 screen
HDD
Windows 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Personal Computer:
AMD FX8350, 8-Core, 4.0GHz (4.2 in Turbo Mode), support AVX, SSE, 3dNow! Doesn't support only AVX 2.0
12 GB RAM
1920x1080
SSD
Windows 7

Both computers is CAPABLE for using Mandel Machine.
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stardust4ever
Fractal Bachius
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Posts: 513



« Reply #309 on: October 05, 2014, 04:48:35 PM »

LAPTOP:
Intel Processor (4-core + 4 virtual cores = 8 cores) i5, support avx2.0
8GB RAM
1920x1080 screen
HDD
Windows 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Personal Computer:
AMD FX8350, 8-Core, 4.0GHz (4.2 in Turbo Mode), support AVX, SSE, 3dNow! Doesn't support only AVX 2.0
12 GB RAM
1920x1080
SSD
Windows 7

Both computers is CAPABLE for using Mandel Machine.
Yes mine is similar to your desktop. I've got the original FX 8150 permanently overclocked at 4.2Ghz with massive heatsink. I noticed you have 12Gb installed. Are you using matched pairs of RAM? Otherwise your PC may not be able to run in dual channel mode which will reduce performance. Get the updated version of Mandel Machine or make a BAT file to run MM with expanded memory allocation. Then 500+ MP won't cause it to hang anymore.
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SeryZone
Strange Attractor
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Posts: 253


Contemplate...


« Reply #310 on: October 11, 2014, 10:08:11 PM »

Hi, stardustforever.

Try to render this in a maximal 16:9 rezolution:
Code:
image.width=640
image.height=360
position.re=-1.27758756259763403598358493296751887263549764875451097943329968584880663728051795081843045368010379413646733171520924017817395729278129531889170765029750388499232992361697618255375789160305163094826233535500658523080242567193751765412629405955459010420590046883742840567082917857046737514453132809464510101274233603883078523670075400185008515000244763144961767531407201475344411644532922581593778111132779777742971089381838162514444952215054507760371922771547917572568812102527507564766767009558597007952832953094012897083367673094530593619523073595404175953921274984391777436305505201391570428601667629201292859758670006414180790777920383111392262597105964229805509522746236540500140668265865883018096338960525250077202040512773902981649859055743288226996474811534897799426701745276003872403863674906847587154778096813639300246475273721014804224829591787689398461699801253690565277613692700516657210162397971660969686461671577751585354791591118332902138451699782481905434507590005170491042215366947412483986910809492898315923197682284333213981206956704651198314902003358197582340451327151276697471107949492874542606209951952152635645761267978955283943341718501172923767781066431514187201136998355403091878316148724575425193096614146572288113563886537099579790570896148621557578948340284642835885540297088080269740682597896375289952720228848484494912917160965977970024012205730464630002566204778356612765061790356964206931000241306278419331577442712440902377174394686606149500832797424964551760656857100793140185951362939574287231992553336954081940581307796609499973132739282527638542616171939786446727504647404276472609376911990153779188599574470599909355381703220819717295462699004572689436286549542382224850458014774000718599863270902177592442216038877535522081552871348778743031101840822884739734736086874098377768306841864136540431052315729246267243806966486031022908082095166734797148881154883981528159540465390768721966551714664837835264690641278202367609620913566149036962034660440575563801128245290498832720023737390875490446826562162904321408597732155267578245449719217236454754218675219434565898691229967014569806302486386329119871361219385018411834973228436656083577851926775633386173137647622717550402278905436289703611787218659155521960214137052181303813451934420580294860108768700305991704458585846555254828802790194467296642711013535625825479425402111410802983255105435120863836869058924638
position.im=0.07536568695782290072012691743253646823135060989710244066292934718821616375020753837974499863618118187301079368927264478945670596259886774084304922214686889833172611919165414859311906916150505392041799193635141444564931462494894957076758596881352718714076720081647874167445458511806733052425760310463610731258886862271409537330045096039233947625137547367733847810351914469077435930266309066536177397871497623212160861027376937988141404431714228116437410848264124277098714982883083798547881447820029052071743038385069346717814999571755332400395729828723069340080429859025764736396249695040717021227983173938892983333316697900193729807216953200405122301796711320807013892993215634139700845098312304432822848771359449819987984396164499310580670617403994871709324632844137401532001214505375389179284156767933970362588347129612322715232278866227926649525601785088758905461754646192417428668093240912258308237863118485162229248194293125819919689038095803720429837466537040811115840628814720138912475192198105424173401140205419731609391782025392670609601302720073713724748996437583852884454888466955408703498131205694494562249255383009222872313829535052485823748684266901870358859707591636466145097811025591337658023865259178479368057029595130117376422712981525840215610694757775549588176618526290217270508412137025972407865141448363723465073368338549387166413786349431710882429544000411964785566510959447400732874472757637627130332534552960381286740417810354033435376938453792241829755461721130778354232197815239563390363925593625862970052137772481064752891936381097633202936829223384978738734878224596274373693342590728769941467962846506306396312558889505715062522307219679482114757469924046320010580254989388018194576208758398896436202833522613299512193500116950632174198230105995402502907130687462509572434057587883794215147398932617068778101482904324223990187122443269031522843080371181556077684996216796089936493437990849888825465919883768413729530933432026767437669120163701488832864764070930984586996585135393029064842339596522372263013754430672607581231224318777184901808512637493918033596847531033002696090844505313978212871749100135974705012310383860909307714395305209772177612532342689301535024682188930812186716080272873404786942227005778359198547512697885604812348247667817954666080867497318614236751826781161731964895857815155446585779654908553494614153998243915025457723622435704321069014243465742
position.magnification=7972.0
position.rotation=0.0
computation.iteration_limit=100000
rendering.computed_only=false
rendering.inner_color=000000
rendering.outer_color=dddd00
rendering.empty_color_1=ffffff
rendering.empty_color_2=e0e0e0
rendering.transfer_function=8
rendering.color_density=-14
rendering.dwell_bands=0
rendering.de_transfer_function=0
rendering.de_color_density=0
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rendering.color_offset=0

I can't understand, what is going on!
Logged

Botond Kósa
Fractal Lover
**
Posts: 233



WWW
« Reply #311 on: October 11, 2014, 10:51:48 PM »

Try to render this in a maximal 16:9 rezolution:
Code:
...

I can't understand, what is going on!

My fault, MM tries to calculate reference with precision above 8000 binary digits and freezes. It will be fixed in the next release.
Logged

Check out my Mandelbrot set explorer:
http://web.t-online.hu/kbotond/mandelmachine/
stardust4ever
Fractal Bachius
*
Posts: 513



« Reply #312 on: October 11, 2014, 10:59:04 PM »

Hi, stardustforever.

Try to render this in a maximal 16:9 rezolution:
Code:
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image.height=360
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rendering.color_offset=0

I can't understand, what is going on!

You make an awesome beta tester SeryZone. You really enjoy testing the limits and breaking stuff. I was just trying to render your location. It worked at 640x360, failed at 30720x17280. I was also successfully able to render to 6000 zoom levels at 530MP.

One wierd thing, with the latest beta, the resolution window said "1728)" in the bottom instead of 17280. 1.2.9 beta and 1.3.1 exhibited the same behavior, but in the interim, Botond Kosa seems to have beaten me to a reply.
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Botond Kósa
Fractal Lover
**
Posts: 233



WWW
« Reply #313 on: October 12, 2014, 11:08:40 AM »

One wierd thing, with the latest beta, the resolution window said "1728)" in the bottom instead of 17280. 1.2.9 beta and 1.3.1 exhibited the same behavior.

Which resolution window?
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Check out my Mandelbrot set explorer:
http://web.t-online.hu/kbotond/mandelmachine/
stardust4ever
Fractal Bachius
*
Posts: 513



« Reply #314 on: October 12, 2014, 02:23:40 PM »

Which resolution window?
On SeryZone's test image, when I attempt to up the resolution to 30720x17280, after typing in 30720, a ")" appears in the height window, and the software locks up. Here is a screen capture:


* glitch.png (183.31 KB, 950x700 - viewed 357 times.)
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