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Author Topic: Voxel image stack and then what?  (Read 45863 times)
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KRAFTWERK
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« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2011, 04:47:06 PM »

Glad you liked it!

I used Fiji to create the bulb.  It's available here:  http://fiji.sc/wiki/index.php/Downloads  I used version 1.45B if that makes a difference in the future)

And if anybody wants one, here's The Mandelbulb obj file:
http://www.sockrateaze.com/stuff/mandelbulb_obj.zip

Animated in Carrara   afro

Double thanks Sockratease, I will try Fiji!
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« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2011, 04:52:45 PM »

Great!

Here's Teena's method, which works consistently.  Read back through the thread to see the whole story.

I'm watching this forum for weeks now without signing up because I thought I have nothing to contribute anyway. Today I signed up because I found a repeatable procedure to create an OBJ file from PNG slices using Fiji (in my case Fiji 64). Before listing my mini tutorial I want to thank Jesse for creating Mandelbulb3D. It's amazing and I love it as much as XenoDream.

Here is my step by step tutorial:

1. Launch Fiji and select "File/Import/Image Sequence".
2. Select "1.png" to open the Sequence Options dialog.
3. In this dialog select additionally "Convert to RGB" and "Use virtual stack" and click OK.
4. Without doing anything else select "File/Save As/PGM". This creates a file with the extension "*.pnm". Accept the offered filename or change it if you want and save it.
5. Now select "File/Save As/Wavefront OBJ" and accept what's displayed in the Triangulate dialog. Wait till the second progress bar has closed in the Fiji status bar.
6. Click "File/Quit" to close Fiji. Strangely enough that's necessary to get the object file saved. Now you can import it into any 3D application that loads the OBJ format. I'm using for instance Vue 10 Infinite.

It would be cool if those slices would somewhat keep the original colors of the fractal to get a fully textured 3D object. However, it's already a huge step forward to be able to create objects at all.


Still seeking the best way to do this.  I also need to test it out on my better computer...
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« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2011, 05:01:11 PM »

Nice! How did you make *.png for stack ? Did you use MD3 "Cutting" ?
Thx
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 05:05:19 PM by slon_ru » Logged

Sockratease
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« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2011, 05:14:03 PM »

Nice! How did you make *.png for stack ? Did you use MD3 "Cutting" ?
Thx


In the latest beta of Mandelbulb 3D, in the Utilities Tab, is a new feature called Voxel Image Stack.

It's all in there.

Lots of settings to explore and optimize still, but default is a good start.  I like to increase the stack to 300 from 100 default, but 400 chokes my poor test computer.  I still need to try this on my Good Computer!
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« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2011, 05:53:32 PM »

I had done some tests for Garth in 2009 to find the polygon count limit in XD 2.2. At that time I had 6GB RAM and the max polygon count was around 27 million polygons. Now I have 16GB RAM and I'm testing out the limit right now in XD 2.4. I'll report the result here. If I can load such a monster into Vue 10 I'll post a picture.

I tried to go to extremes and rendered an object in XD 2.4 using a grid size of 1350. The resulting object has a polygon count of almost 36 million. After the simplification process in XD you can save the object in whatever % of quality you want without re-rendering:

100% quality = 35,879,604 polygons = 2.9 GB filesize
 50% quality =   9,130,448 polygons = 722 MB filesize
 25% quality =   2,388,072 polygons = 175 MB filesize
 10% quality =      407,640 polygons = 27.7 MB filesize

Of course this was just some extreme testing. I would recommend to start with a grid size of 500 when rendering a fractal object with many details. If it's not enough then just increase it.

Here is the rendered 25% quality object:


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Jesse
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« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2011, 12:25:25 AM »

Cool, so you really need this voxel stuff... i thought i program everything you need in m3d as time goes by.  wink

Ok, with 6 formula slots it is a bit limited, could not get the bulb rotated:


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« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2011, 12:42:45 AM »

Awww! How cute and funny! laugh
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bib
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« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2011, 07:58:23 AM »

Ok, with 6 formula slots it is a bit limited, could not get the bulb rotated:


I always thought 6 formulas would be enough, but since this new voxel frenzy you just proved we need unlimited formulas! You will never stop to surprise us Master Jesse (as waivers would tell wink)

btw I finally managed to get something out of Fiji into Meshlab. But Meshlab crashes with files bigger than 200-250 MB. And still can't import them into Blender (??)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 08:00:32 AM by bib » Logged

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Sockratease
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« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2011, 10:46:11 AM »


Cool, so you really need this voxel stuff... i thought i program everything you need in m3d as time goes by.  wink

Ok, with 6 formula slots it is a bit limited, could not get the bulb rotated:


See?

It wasn't just me after all!

I'm getting better at making obj's from detail shots zoomed in to a fractal, but they get tricky.  Images after I get good at it   afro

I like the bouncy bulb image.  Blender?  Or other 3D Software?

And bib - I have started just skipping meshlab as most of my obj's seem to come out with few holes and that step isn't really needed.  Also, I'm getting half decent detail with smaller models  (my poor system just can't handle the large files made this way - which is weird because it handles other very large files.  Slowly, but it handles them.  These just choke the poor thing!
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« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2011, 10:57:22 AM »

I like the bouncy bulb image.  Blender?  Or other 3D Software?

My guess is that this is pure Mandelbulb3D.

And bib - I have started just skipping meshlab as most of my obj's seem to come out with few holes and that step isn't really needed.  Also, I'm getting half decent detail with smaller models  (my poor system just can't handle the large files made this way - which is weird because it handles other very large files.  Slowly, but it handles them.  These just choke the poor thing!

Do know how to you use Blender? I try to import a Wavefront OBJ file (which works in Meshlab up to a certain size) but nothing happens. The used RAM increases, but the layout stays empty.
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Sockratease
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« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2011, 11:07:34 AM »

Do know how to you use Blender? I try to import a Wavefront OBJ file (which works in Meshlab up to a certain size) but nothing happens. The used RAM increases, but the layout stays empty.

Blender has a stupid-high learning curve.

I got along much better with Carrara than any other 3D Package.  Even Bryce makes little sense to me, but I can use it.

I have Blender, and have used it often for conversions of one format 3D Model to another.  But Hexagon  (a dedicated Modeling Program with no render engine) handles these models fine, so I left Blender out.  Importing the obj should show something though.

As for useless obj's - I get that a portion of the time.  It's got to have something to do with the creation of the obj file.  Fiji is temperamental and sometimes gives large files with no useful geometry inside.

If using Fiji the best tip so far came from Teena, after creating a file - you have to close the program so it will finish writing the darn thing!  I checked file sizes of obj's made before and after closing Fiji, and yes - they change dramatically.


Edit -

My guess is that this is pure Mandelbulb3D.

Really?  That is possible right in MB3D?

How?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 11:10:44 AM by Sockratease » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2011, 11:35:45 AM »

Do know how to you use Blender? I try to import a Wavefront OBJ file (which works in Meshlab up to a certain size) but nothing happens. The used RAM increases, but the layout stays empty.

Blender has a stupid-high learning curve.

I got along much better with Carrara than any other 3D Package.  Even Bryce makes little sense to me, but I can use it.

I have Blender, and have used it often for conversions of one format 3D Model to another.  But Hexagon  (a dedicated Modeling Program with no render engine) handles these models fine, so I left Blender out.  Importing the obj should show something though.

As for useless obj's - I get that a portion of the time.  It's got to have something to do with the creation of the obj file.  Fiji is temperamental and sometimes gives large files with no useful geometry inside.

If using Fiji the best tip so far came from Teena, after creating a file - you have to close the program so it will finish writing the darn thing!  I checked file sizes of obj's made before and after closing Fiji, and yes - they change dramatically.


OK, I'll try Bryce and Carrara if I can.

I've downloaded the latest version of Fiji and it works quite well. When saving to OBJ, I don't have to close it to get the large file, but I have to wait until the file size stops to grow, about 1 or 2 minutes after the progress bar has got to 100%. I still try to understand the effect of the 2 parameters in the saving options. Threshold seems to have very little effect on the output (I tried values like 1, 10, 25, 50 100) whereas Resampling factor has a dramatic effect on file size. With a 500^3 stack, the Default value of 2 makes a file about 50 GB big and a value of 1 makes it about 300GB.


My guess is that this is pure Mandelbulb3D.

Really?  That is possible right in MB3D?

How?

Good question, let's wait for Jesse's answer, who knows, the man is full of resources! As he mentioned that he was limited by the 6 formula tabs, I thought he did it entirely in M3D. For sure he would have used the DE Comb Min mode to combinate the bulb with the rest (5 tabs left to make the ground and the animal using a strange hybrid). But after a second thought, that seems difficult, because to make the bulb bounce he would have had to use the _Translate formula as a pre-transform, and unfortunately it's not possible to combine 2+4 hybrid formulas, only 1+5.
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blob
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« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2011, 11:44:28 AM »

I could import my 2.2M polygons bulb into Blender without problems but it was all hidden inside the default cube. Unfortunately after hiding the cube Blender crashed when I selected the bulb.

I tried to import it into Wings3D but had no luck with that, the application froze during loading.

However I could load it, move it and rotate it (both slow) and then render it without problems in Kerkythea.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 11:47:17 AM by blob » Logged
Sockratease
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« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2011, 11:54:02 AM »

Here's the Personal Learning Edition of Bryce:  http://www.daz3d.com/i/products/bryce/download?

It's free for non-commercial use only.

However I could load it, move it and rotate it (both slow) and then render it without problems in Kerkythea.

Never heard of Kerkythea!

Another one to try   nasty teeth
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« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2011, 11:55:30 AM »

Unfortunately after hiding the cube Blender crashed when I selected the bulb.

Uhhh...how do you hide the cube?
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