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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2009, 04:20:33 PM » |
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When I registered to this forum a month ago, I did not imagine there could be such interesting and fun threads. Fractal_Artist, I think I have understood your point, and I really appreciate exchanging ideas with you and other people on this thread. But you have to admit, even if the few people that have expressed here their opinion about your work were quite critical, that you came as a conqueror with this provocative question : how many fractals have you made ? I wasn't trying to conquer or establish my rule over anyone. It was simply a question stated in the manner of "hey, how many fractals have you guys or gals made?" Then as a comparison I offered people the chance to see what I had done with a bit of history about myself. When I logged on to this forum I read the "read me" type section which said I should make some sort of introduction. And look how things have mushroomed by doing that much!Introducing yourself in this way is like coming in front of people you don't necessarily know (mostly specialists, but not me) and say : look, I am your master, I hold the world record, who wants to compete ? Well, I figured a forum full of people who are into the same thing I am into would be a cool way to talk and exchange ideas. I ddin't come here with the intention of starting a "flame war". Or for fanning the "flames" of said war. This is also probably why the responses have been a bit critical, maybe they would have been different if you were more humble. I'm all for humble when it is appropriate. Maybe you would back down and be quite when others insisted your works aren't worthy of their idea of fractal art. Instead I tried to understand their point of view. No one has stated yet why they feel my fractals are not art. Even Lyceum will admit that art is in the eye of the beholder. By that acknowledgment it is affirmed having the majority of my fractals online makes sense. It gives the average person as well as fractal fans a chance to see greater variety of color, shape, and experimentation. If all fractals looked like Apo-types or Ultra Fractal-types how boring things would be! On the other hand, you seem to have a lot of activities around fractals, and I thank you for that, because I think fractals ought to be better known by a wider audience.
I have a show I am going to tomorrow night to run my fractals as background visuals for musician Michael Thomas Roe (his style is like his musical partner Conrad Schnitzler, who founded Tangerine Dream and Kluster). I try to keep busy. Most people say they look like stuff they saw in the 60s. Could you please post your own latest favourite fractals on the forum, to give us a chance to express new opinions ?
My own favorites or someone else's? I can do that. Be prepared for the firestorm that seems to result  Thanks  |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2009, 04:31:41 PM » |
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This is also probably why the responses have been a bit critical, maybe they would have been different if you were more humble. in my case, you are correct: at first i quietly observed the thread, everyone suggested the quantity/quality problem so i had no reason to chime in. but when FA persisted in brushing off such amazingly diplomatic (and obvious/unanimous) posts as you and GF put forth, he was basically begging for it. frankly i'd say he's been nothing but rude and challenging from the start, to everyone (which is just a few posts ago, easily confirmed). edit: as you observed, it just isn't art on display (and for sale) here. where's the composition, colouring, clarity, cropping, ... ? Lyceum,
If you are accusing me of trying to sell in the wrong part of the forum then you would be guilty of the same thing. So would anyone else who links out to their Deviant Art page that also has a market section with fractals or other images for sale. Now, why would I want to crop my fractals? The coloring is readily observable unless the observer is entirely color blind. In which case my greyscale, pseudo-greyscale, and black & white fractals might be more pleasing. Define composition please. I am trying to be objective. |
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2009, 08:15:59 PM » |
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@fractalartist, i really forgot, this was a welcome thread, ( a rather huge one ) , so welcome to the forums  |
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---
divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2009, 11:49:43 PM » |
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@fractalartist, i really forgot, this was a welcome thread, ( a rather huge one ) , so welcome to the forums Greetings to you too. Thank you, Trifox. What happened to Monofox and Bifox? |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2009, 12:06:11 AM » |
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This is also probably why the responses have been a bit critical, maybe they would have been different if you were more humble. in my case, you are correct: at first i quietly observed the thread, everyone suggested the quantity/quality problem so i had no reason to chime in. but when FA persisted in brushing off such amazingly diplomatic (and obvious/unanimous) posts as you and GF put forth, he was basically begging for it. frankly i'd say he's been nothing but rude and challenging from the start, to everyone (which is just a few posts ago, easily confirmed).
LY: trifox has stated the opposite sentiment. Have I been rude and challenging to you? Have you been the same way to me? Be honest. If you were to see one good fractal that I have made would you be willing to or able to admit it? Openly say so right here? It feels like you've been so negative towards me that you wouldn't or couldn't bring yourself to do that. What if I had made one of the popular Apo-style or UF-type fractals? And tweaked it 'til no end? Would that qualify me as a fractal artist in your eye(s)?
You said earlier there are skilled, wise, and masterful fractal artists. What constitutes such qualities? Does time alone dictate any or all of these things? Please lay down the steps required to attain a measure of respect, skill, wisdom, and mastery of art and/or fractal art that you assess my works by. If a person is to grow from criticisms (constructive or otherwise) there has to be some form of structure and instruction.edit: as you observed, it just isn't art on display (and for sale) here. where's the composition, colouring, clarity, cropping, ... ? |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2009, 12:21:47 AM » |
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Do you have a problem with rainbows ?   When I got started exploring fractals a lot of 'em were saved with the default color scheme. So what you're gonna see is a bunch of rainbows. As I got accustomed to the software I started to make my own color themes. If you dig around a little more, like on the color themes page, you will see more variety. I must admit I am fond of the Trippy color themes. If you are looking for great colors that might be the place for you to start. If you want spindly looking fractals, or fractals that look like pin stripe art, then go huntin' through the Posters gallery. You can access all three galleries from the General Use page. My Limited Editions and The Name Game sections are not unique galleries unto themselves. These are sub-categories within one or more of the three main galleries. |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2009, 12:50:14 AM » |
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Bias is not a bad thing. It is if you want the truth. Maybe your opinion will change if you had or took the time to look at all of the ones on my web site? Just how many terrible images do I have to look at before I can safely rule out a massive population of 90,000? It would help if there were a faint glimmer of hope in any of the 6 or 7 galleries in your "general use" (whatever that means) gallery; There are only three galleries. General Use, Cross Stitch, Posters. The other two are actually a refinement of the General Use gallery. Limited Edition Prints was set up to show people that these particular images have been scaled to 4096 x 3072. That gives me an edge on future orders. Because now I am ready for prints up to 40 x 30 inches on nearly 900 fractals. Because the layered fractals don't always present themselves as such it was easier for me to create examples that people could point to and see what I meant. There are a number of ways I could have handled this issue. I tried to keep it as simple as possible. Besides all of that, I have been taking advice from a diverse group of people on the layout of my catalog site. Older people tend to have certain requirements that not all younger people have. Handicapped people have their own set of requirements. Creating a site that serves them all equally well can be a challenge.
The Name Game came about when gallery owners insisted if I was going to be taken seriously I had to give titles to everything I am selling. I asked a number of artists how they make their titles and I was told "a dictionary, sense of humor, and their imagination." As I have a dictionary, smart ass sense of humor, and a nifty imagination I took it upon myself to create titles for all those Limited Edition Prints. Whew...
Is the description of General Use no longer on my site? Hmm...I thought I had left that part on there. Here is what it means:
At the time I was making my fractals there was a single catch-all category that I called General Use. Everything that I was making from those fractals came from this one category. Later I added a Cross Stitch assortment that differs from the fractals (mostly) in General Use. Then I added a third library of fractals in the Posters section. Again, these are different from the other two galleries. I have struggled with the notion of separating the fractals in this manner ever since I organized my web site. For some it might seem better to erase all those uploads and start over again. For me, I am on dial-up. It took over a year to upload 20 gigs of data so it is simpler to redefine the purposes of those galleries. If that description is not on my site I will try to get that back up there. if you had a single gallery, or one labelled "These are the images I will stand by and not refer you a thousand others if you feel they are lacking in quality", I would have gone there first. Simply not allowing your views to become my views does not mean I am ignoring anything. True, you aren't ignoring anyone so much as plugging your ears and saying "La la la la I can't hear you my opinion matters more anyway." You are the guilty party in regards to that comment. To insist that someone you don't know must submit to your will is arrogant at the very least. It could even be construed as offensive or insulting. But to be insulted or offended I would have to value the source of those opinions. To date you have failed to give reason to acquire said value.I have been to your Deviant Art page. There are some okay fractal examples there. Not much in the way of variety. You got a mandlebrot, something that looks like an Apo puff/flame, some typical 3D looking fractals. No offense, but the stuff in your "faves" folder is prettier than your own stuff. Maybe you should make fractals that look like someone else's idea of what fractals look like. No offense, but I wasn't asking your opinion of my work, and if I wanted one I'd ask a fractal artist. In any case, your judgement proves your (admittedly) biased perception.
So anyone who disagrees with your idea of fractal art is not an artist? Logically that would mean that you are not a fractal artist because you disagree with my fractal art. True enough, you did not ask me to do anything but be more like you. Or to make the same types of fractals that you do. Or to waste my time on one style of fractal making in the hopes that someone, somewhere, will cherish it and give me much props. Excuse me, but the sun will become a habitable space resort before I suck up to anyone. You demand that I look at things objectively, yet yourself cannot or will not do the same with your own (few) creations. The ones you like on your DA page that belong to other people are way cooler than what you have done. I was pointing out the illogical comments you have made about me. Perhaps if you adhered to your own preachings you would be a more approachable person. |
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Nahee_Enterprises
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« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2009, 02:07:08 AM » |
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Limited Edition Prints was set up to show people that these particular images have been scaled to 4096 x 3072. That gives me an edge on future orders. Because now I am ready for prints up to 40 x 30 inches on nearly 900 fractals. I am curious about the above statements. Would you mind stating what DPI you print your images at ?? Also, would you tell me what size fractal graphic (in pixel dimensions) you would need to render to print an image at 40-inches by 30-inches at 300 DPI ?? |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2009, 02:47:51 AM » |
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When I registered to this forum a month ago, I did not imagine there could be such interesting and fun threads. I agree. Lots of things being slung back n' forth.Could you please post your own latest favourite fractals on the forum, to give us a chance to express new opinions ? Thanks Should I just post links here or somewhere like the gallery? I'm leery about uploading my fractals here after what facebook pulled. I'd rather link to the pages or images themselves. Starting with: http://www.allfractup.com/Fractal_Catalog/Prints/0001.html I like the fractal shapes found on the Limited Edition Prints pages. http://www.allfractup.com/My_Reviews.html I used to post my fractals on Renderosity. The reviews you see are copy n' pasted without editing. These thumbnails can be found as larger versions on my web site. You should cross reference the color fractals on The Name Game page. http://www.allfractup.com/Color_Themes.html My intentions were good. What it turned into...well that is another matter. I began looking for specific color themes. This would have allowed people to get beyond all those darned rainbows, to choose something that better matched their decor, to search for gifts, etc. What happened is I lost track of my initial search criteria as I scoured through a butt load of fractals. So what I have is a mish-mash of accurate and sort-of accurate color themes. If you like I can post more links later. Let me know what you think. That request seems to garner a lot of replies on this thread |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2009, 05:47:56 AM » |
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Limited Edition Prints was set up to show people that these particular images have been scaled to 4096 x 3072. That gives me an edge on future orders. Because now I am ready for prints up to 40 x 30 inches on nearly 900 fractals. I am curious about the above statements. Would you mind stating what DPI you print your images at ?? Also, would you tell me what size fractal graphic (in pixel dimensions) you would need to render to print an image at 40-inches by 30-inches at 300 DPI ?? |
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Nahee_Enterprises
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« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2009, 09:04:51 AM » |
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I use 100 dpi when I send it to the printers. I know it is popular to have triple that. I have sent my fractals at 4096 x 3072 to all sorts of places and the prints came back fine without jaggies. Today's inkjet printers usually have three standard DPI output settings: normal: 300x300, or 320x320 high quality: 600x600, or 720x720, or 1440x720 photo quality: 1200x1200, or 1440x1440, or 2880x1440 and up They also have a draft or economy setting, which is usually at around 90 to 100 DPI, but it is suggested that one never use this setting for printing images. It's primarily used for printing text and rough drafts. And before anyone here crabs at me for saying these things I was trained as a pressman. It has been many years since I worked with offset and 4-color processing, and I do not have much of my handiwork left from those years, but I too have some history with such equipment. My calculator shows it to be 12288 x 9216. What dimensions do you use to run the same size prints? Your calculations above will work for a 40-inch by 30-inch print at 300 DPI. There are times I will print as low as 150 DPI, but this is usually for large banners which will be seen from more of a distance. Anytime a client will be framing something for their own wall, then I usually try to print at 300 DPI. |
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 09:19:38 AM by Nahee_Enterprises »
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2009, 12:32:13 PM » |
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I use 100 dpi when I send it to the printers. I know it is popular to have triple that. I have sent my fractals at 4096 x 3072 to all sorts of places and the prints came back fine without jaggies. Today's inkjet printers usually have three standard DPI output settings: normal: 300x300, or 320x320 high quality: 600x600, or 720x720, or 1440x720 photo quality: 1200x1200, or 1440x1440, or 2880x1440 and up Before I switched over to Cafe Press I was using services that had Epson poster-size printers. I believe theirs had a resolution of 5760 x 1440 or 5760 x 2880. Personally I preferred using printers that have 1200 x 1200, 1440 x 1440, and other equal resolutions. I still like to get prints made from a Light Jet. Although I hear the Lambda equivalent has taken the lead as the preferred RGB light writer.They also have a draft or economy setting, which is usually at around 90 to 100 DPI, but it is suggested that one never use this setting for printing images. It's primarily used for printing text and rough drafts. And before anyone here crabs at me for saying these things I was trained as a pressman.[/color] It has been many years since I worked with offset and 4-color processing, and I do not have much of my handiwork left from those years, but I too have some history with such equipment.
What gear did you work on? Did you have a favorite press or a least favorite one? My teacher said the first press you ever use will be the one you love using the most. For me my first one was a chain delivery single color AB Dick. I would love to go back for updated training on the new digital presses. But that course is offered once yearly at DeKalb Technical. If I had a choice between a mechanical press and a computer controlled press??? Sure enough I would use the computerized contraption every time My calculator shows it to be 12288 x 9216. What dimensions do you use to run the same size prints?[/color] Your calculations above will work for a 40-inch by 30-inch print at 300 DPI. There are times I will print as low as 150 DPI, but this is usually for large banners which will be seen from more of a distance. Anytime a client will be framing something for their own wall, then I usually try to print at 300 DPI. |
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Nahee_Enterprises
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« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2009, 11:37:06 PM » |
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What gear did you work on? Did you have a favorite press or a least favorite one? I too was once a user of A. B. Dick machines, but that was before General Electric Company purchased the A.B.Dick Company (which will give you some idea as to how old I and those machines are). No particular favorites or least favorite. I was mainly involved in the technical illustration and graphic arts area, but would sometimes shoot my own PMT's, setup the plates, and do small runs. |
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Fractal_Artist
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« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2009, 03:58:07 AM » |
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What gear did you work on? Did you have a favorite press or a least favorite one? I too was once a user of A. B. Dick machines, but that was before General Electric Company purchased the A.B.Dick Company (which will give you some idea as to how old I and those machines are). Good LAwdy! You're ancient! |
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lycium
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2009, 02:34:24 PM » |
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This model of fractal production does not work. It just isn't sustainable: after just 10 years you will have produced 390000 fractals if you stick with your "powerful" Duron 1.2 GHz (so no accounting for Moore's law). At this stage a reluctant user forced to view the whole gallery in "just" one day (4 sittings of 2 hours) would have to watch a 10x10 grid of frame-animations at 20 FPS, almost certainly causing permanent brain damage Logically we can conclude that you cannot feasibly at the same time: 1. insist that viewers see the whole gallery instead of judging any particular subset 2. keep "making fractals" at your current prodigious rate... 3. ... for more than 10 years. |
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November 16, 2009, 10:43:02 PM
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