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Author Topic: Save Parameters  (Read 2056 times)
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MindsEye
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« on: March 12, 2012, 12:44:06 AM »

Hey Jesse and gang here, I was plodding along the other day making a wonderful fractal and luckily I had stopped and saved out one camera view and was flipping about trying to find another when "blip!" - "This program has crashed unexpectedly..." NoooooOOOoo! But then I thought:
Cinema 4d and 3ds Max for example have an autosave function that saves every xx minutes (you set the timer in settings). Would this be something that could be incorporated into M3D?

A Feature that autosaves just the parameter sheet every 5 mins and just calls it autoback001 autoback002 etc. would be AMAZING! Because as great as this or any program is, they still crash now and again, sometimes when we mere mortals have been so excited about our fractal digging
that we forget to save.

What do you think?

Thanks!

///Mike.
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DarkBeam
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 08:11:23 AM »

I think that whenever mb exits the param is copied on clipboard
I maybe wrong
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Jesse
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 11:12:18 AM »

I think that whenever mb exits the param is copied on clipboard

Yes, but not if the program really crashed...

what seems a bit strange to me because it never happened to me, has someone else noticed program chrashes?

If this is a typical issue on other programs as well, i would look if the CPU gets to hot and get a better CPU fan+heatsink maybe!
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DarkBeam
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 11:33:24 AM »

 fiery My system has a driver issue and it randomly crashes. And I have lost a parameter + a render cry
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bib
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 01:41:41 PM »

has someone else noticed program chrashes?

Probably less than 3 times in hundreds of hours of extreme usage. Your program is really an example of stability Jesse.
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lenord
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 02:34:22 PM »

Never had any stability problems with MB3D, have had it just go Boom though, usually when I'm wasted....Coincidence......I think Not.  :smiley
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taurus
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 02:55:48 PM »

mb crashes on my machine frequently after waking up windows from sleep mode.  fiery
let me bring a former suggestion back to mind. a file-based undo list like mandelbulber has one. every time you hit "render" there, the current parameter along with an index is written into a dedicated textfile. so everytime you start the program, you have the last 99 (i think) steps of work within your undo list, regardless if crashed or regularily quit.
i'm not a programmer, but this should not be so complicated to implement and it is really handy!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 02:58:38 PM by taurus66 » Logged

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Madman
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 08:57:51 PM »

Haven't had a single crash with M3D as far as I can remember. The latest versions do create frequent freezes of the system though, even at "lowest" setting, but never longer then a couple of seconds. I have issues though using the navigator while a scene is rendering. Used to be no problem, but since version 1.78, the navigator is very unresponsive.
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MindsEye
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 11:02:37 PM »

Yes, but not if the program really crashed...

what seems a bit strange to me because it never happened to me, has someone else noticed program chrashes?

If this is a typical issue on other programs as well, i would look if the CPU gets to hot and get a better CPU fan+heatsink maybe!


Ok, without getting into it too deeply, I have built my machines since the early 80's and was the IT chef and primary computer system designer for scandinavias largest manufacturer of computers. I feel it is safe to say that it is definitely not my machine. If you want to see my machine spec:

Warhammer II (My Machine)
NZXT Phantom Chasis w/extra Noctua 120mm Fan in front bay.
Asus Crossfire Extreme Mainboard
AMD Phenom II 1090T Black Edition CPU @4013Mhz
Silverstone 1500 Watt Modular Power Supply
16 GB 2000mhz Corsair XM3 Ram (4x4Gb) @836 MHz (1672MHz)
Club Radeon HD 6950 Gfx Card
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler
Corsair F120GB2 120Gb SSD Main OS Drive on 6GB/s AHCI SATA Channel
14 TB SATA 2 Drives (10Gb Internal 4TB External USB)
Card Reader w/16GB Fast SD Card with ReadyBoost/Swap)
DVD RW+/- Standard Optical Drive
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
Razer Deathadder Gaming Mouse
Steelseries 5HV2 Gaming Headset
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 with BlackBox/Rainmeter instead of Win7 Shell
Triple LG W2453TQ 24" 2ns 50,000:1 Widescreen Monitors in EyeFinity

Sorry for unnecessary info its a copy-paste from a hardware site I am a member of. My point is, its not my machine. It works like a champ with no problems in any other software. It can crunch Prime95 for 24 hours without a hiccup. I also want to be very clear in saying that M3D does not crash a lot... but it is also not impervious to crashing. No program really is. It is quite stable, and has only crapped out on me maybey 3 times in all the time I have been using it. I think its also fair to say that I run sometimes 4-5 copies of M3D at once, and usually with no issue. The few times I have had a crash were when it was working with extreme parameters and it quite literally crapped itself and shut down. I was going to reproduce one of the crashes to get you some bug data but I got lost in the fractal instead : )

Re-itterating: M3D does NOT crash a lot. But it CAN happen, and an autosave or autoback function would save those lost nuggets of gold, as we all know sometimes you are deep in it, and something awesome comes up, but you know you can never find exactly that spot again if you happen to crash.

///MindsEye
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MindsEye
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 11:27:38 PM »

Just wanted to add an afterthought, instead of even having the conversation about the stability of M3D which is not at ALL what I was asking about really, lets pull the problem away from M3D and just say for the sake of argument that M3D never crashes, and if it does its the persons hardware or os that is at fault. I think we can all suspend our reality long enough to do that, now lets put the blame on Windows instead and still go back to the same question:

Could we have an autoback function in case WINDOWS crashes, or lightning knocks out the power or the country we live in is hit by an EMP.. whatever you like. In the event of ANY crash for whatever reason, we would still be able to retrieve our work and continue.

Grin with closed eyes That was the point I was trying to make with this thread, and not a discussion about M3D stability. It is very stable. But poop happens. A timer that activates the save function and a little sequential naming function is all that would be needed. I promise I will reproduce any future crashes and give you a full bug report Jesse. (also for the record, when the crash I mentioned happened I only had 2 copies of M3D running and one was idle.)
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Jesse
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 12:44:12 AM »

Ok, i see  wink

It is just that i hate unstable programs, especially if i like to use it  smiley

Should be no big problem to make a "History" folder with auto creating m3p's with date+time, keeping the last 100 ones is maybe the hardest part   Azn
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taurus
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 06:41:03 AM »

...and if it does its the persons hardware or os that is at fault...

BS!
i've been building pc systems for more than ten years as well and only had problems in one case -- when i tried to modify a system off the peg...

the only unusual thing in my case of use might be, that i restart my machine rarely - once or twice a week. the rest of the time i suspend it to ram or disk - sometimes automatted. to make this clear: mandelbulber is not as stable as m3d, but the crashes with m3d were the only troublesome so far, because i lost hours of work there. and i still didn't start to animate in m3d.

thanks in advance jesse for dealing with my suggestion, i appeciate that - hope i didn't annoy too much  wink
i'll calm down a lot, when i don't have to think about the current up-time of my setup...

« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 02:32:12 PM by taurus66 » Logged

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MindsEye
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 08:07:49 PM »

BS!
i've been building pc systems for more than ten years as well and only had problems in one case -- when i tried to modify a system off the peg...

the only unusual thing in my case of use might be, that i restart my machine rarely - once or twice a week. the rest of the time i suspend it to ram or disk - sometimes automatted. to make this clear: mandelbulber is not as stable as m3d, but the crashes with m3d were the only troublesome so far, because i lost hours of work there. and i still didn't start to animate in m3d.

thanks in advance jesse for dealing with my suggestion, i appeciate that - hope i didn't annoy too much  wink
i'll calm down a lot, when i don't have to think about the current up-time of my setup...



If you re-read what I wrote I was making a hypothetical. "Lets just say, for the sake of argument..." It was just to illustrate a point, not a statement of fact.
I reboot my machine MAYBE once a month... It usually runs 24/7 unless I have to reboot for some installation or something.

I am glad jesse is going to try and implement such a thing in any case.. it can be usefull in more ways than just recovery from a crash, it will also allow you to go back to at least the points that were saved at a later date which could also be usefull when you, for example, have a decent spot then leave it for the chance of something better only to find that your later efforts didnt produce anything better. If the timing is right and you happen to have a save point in that place then you are all set.

Thanks for hearing us out jesse, I know you are really busy.
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taurus
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 09:39:14 PM »

It usually runs 24/7

that's exactly the difference. i usually send my machine to sleep once or twice a day, as i don't need it, when i'm in the office (except some rendering jobs). many applications have trouble surviving such a sleep. within our (architecture) office we simply stopped using sleep modes, after a short test period. we encountered noumerous crashes or unresponsive processes including outlook, our cad software and several other tools.

for sure i could go the same way with my private workspace, but as i work on two monitors with many open programs, it takes me some time to restore a valid working environment from scratch. in short words: it's not a matter of need, it's a matter of comfort and ease, to have a reliable backup mechanism.

i mostly hesitate to make precocious suggestions to jesse, buddhi or whoever, as they make a wonderful job without my palaver. this one came up two times after someone else expressed a similar wish.
i think, i will keep quiet for some time in theese cases...  grin
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