I Ching and Fractals?

[Thunderwave]

Fractals, Evolution and the I Ching - School of Wisdom

I think this could be worth talking about. I can see how the I Ching could be related to fractals, as it is a long recursive process when using the yarrow stock method. LOL, But seriously the symbols have a very repetitious pattern similar throughout, but it is only 1s and 0s really, so how hard is that to make similar.   But I know that there's more to it than that: 

Similar to the Cantor Set

Wu Chi Beginning
----------------------------
Tai Chi

Yin                     yang
------ ------- | --------------

Lessor and Greater
--- ---|-------|--- ---|-------
--- ---|--- ---|-------|-------

The Ba Gua (Eight trigams)
- -|---|- -|---|- -|---|- -|---
- -|- -|---|---|- -|- -|---|---
- -|- -|- -|- -|---|---|---|---

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
......up to the 64 Hexagrams

Shao Yong's Diagram of the I Ching Set


It's cool to think about!

Now this same set is used in Bach's Cello Suite no. 3.
http://www.maa.org/mathtourist/mathtourist_9_3_08.html

Is it no crazy leap to think that "fractals" may be innate creativity, natural selection, even maybe "everything"?  Not everything. That can be disproved, and it has, or has it? 

What's your take?

[David Makin]

My take is straightforward - everything is fractal. You can describe all geometry in fractal terms but there are obviously fractals that cannot be described in other terms.
Also since existence itself is essentially a dynamical system it stands to reason that it would be fractal - more precisely a multi-fractal of epic proportions.
Fractals even point to the idea that seemingly random physical processes such as radioactive decay are not actually truly random but are simply a deterministic but unpredictable system.

[Thunderwave]

Thanks David for your wisdom and courtesy.  I just realized this is in the wrong thread and thought it should be moved to Philosophy, or something similar.

I would mostly agree that fractals could be the larger view of life the universe and everything, but then what is 42? ::
I am so curious about it all that, I feel I am always out of time to read every book I have on, fractals, chaos, and all the math behind it.  Plus I want to find out how it relates to music.  I get Bach's style.  He was a genius!  I am just a mere admirer of all the geniuses out there and wish I could possess all of their wisdom NOW! 

So, I digress....

Is there fractals in meditation?  Is meditation scientific?  Can you write out an equation to calculate meditative results to the body?  I think it has been done.  There's a device that is suppose to help you synchronize your heart rate to the rest of your body in full coherence. http://www.glcoherence.org (emwave product) I haven't tried it since it costs around $200, but I always try to keep an open mind.  Especially since so many rifts have been found in our math and science departments, such as Douglas R. Hofstadter's proofs or disproof's.  "This statement is not provable."  It goes to show that we can not know everything when we are not everything!  Perhaps when one meditates, they can merge with everything, but at that point is the mind even in the same state as I am when I type this?

Oooohhhhhhmmmmmm

[comus]

Surely, you've heard of Terrence McKenna's fractal timewave? It's based on the I Ching.

[jehovajah]

Hiya Thunderwave.

The I ching and Fractals for me is a recent discovery, so i am interested in what you have to say.

You may be Tentative, but i am Positive. Lai Zhide is my latest handle on the Taijitu which i find most useful, and of course he is a master Yi-ologist and greatly influenced the representation and use of the I ching especially for scientists of his time.

The connection of the I Ching to circles and then spirals is a remarkable development in philosophical thinking. It is a clear indication of a metaphysical, analogical mode of thought in ancient, ancient times, and plays its part in the development of the bicameral mind description of human development in thinking and speaking and writing.

We have a partisan view of ancient knowledge systems , and unfortunately "rationalists" throw the baby out with the bath water. It is a salutary reminder that until recently, all scientists were astrologers! Only over time and in fact due to religious persecution has the knowledge in these ancient systems been split apart as seperate "secular" entities. This explains why the "shape" of our knowledge is so odd and random. It is in fact cobbled together from ancient systems of thought, and cultural expression.

The I ching is in fact a powerful algorithm, which i am currently exploring to construct spirals and categorise spirals.

By the way , i hope you are more settled in your mind that fractals do not need to be constructed by computers, and in fact this is a very very late development of fractal construction, which is why we are discussing the I Ching amongst other fractal generating knowledge systems.

[Thunderwave]

@jehovajah

Thank you for showing interest.  I was working on a project and studying the I Ching for some time, when I got sidetracked by other things that took precedence.
I am new to the I Ching myself and took a class on Ancient Chinese life and my essays were all about the I Ching.  I compiled them into two essays and some imagery.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3515554/I%20Ching%20Essays.pdf

I was also focused on the order that is within the Chaos of divining with Yarrow Stalks, as opposed to coins, marbles and some other technique.  It is a precise mathematical algorithm based on chance, just like the Chaos Game. 

I was transferring it into music but it never went that far.