Fractal nature of time

[hermann]

There is just few shure known physical processes who deffinetely are fractal;)

Just the opposit is correct. I would go so far to state that all physical processes are fractal!
The problem is that we have good mathematics for linear processes, for which we can give solutions.
For non linear processes the number of solutions decreases rapidly.

Time on the scale of our daily live is flat and not fractal!

This changes drasticaly if one goes to the scale of partical physics.
Then the fundamental law of energie and time uncerenty take control over time and space.



If time is very small can become very big until particles out of nothing can apear for a very short amount of time.
Spacetime is like cooking water on microscopc scale.

In particel physics it is also possible for particels to move forward and backward in time.

For example a positron can be seen as an elektron moving backward in time. Below is a Feynman diagram showing the positon elekton anhilation to produce a light particel (photon). Time runs from bottom to top in this diagram. To particles an elektron and a positron come from the past and move into the future to produce photons.

The diagram can also be read differeant. A elektron travels from the past into the futur and the is shattered back into the past by two photons comming from the future.


There is a new universe of fractals to be discovered by visualisation of physical processes.

Hermann

[youhn]

Have you ever heard about "gnomon" ?

No. Just googled it and it can be a art school, a figure, ... but perhaps you mean something else?

For non linear processes the number of solutions decreases rapidly.

Maybe a better way of putting this is to say that to possible solutions to chaotic* systems increase and therefore the predictability decreases.

* Chaotic in the meaning of great sensitivity to initial conditions

Time on the scale of our daily live is flat and not fractal!

Depends on how you look at it. I'm not sure if time has an intrinsic shape or geometry. They way we represent it has both linear and fractal. Historybooks are full of linear of semi-linear (log) timelines. Our calanders works like the movements of our solarsystems and planet, which don't really fit mathematically nice. Every now and then suddenly we need a little of big jump to correct it.

If there was only space without movement, would there be time? Or does time only exist because of things moving through space?

[hermann]

Thanks youhn,

for the fast response on my post.

I think it is a littel bit difficult to explain it in words. If we see the sun from the earth we see it as a circle.
A view on the spectrum of the sun may lead us to the assumtion that it has te spectra of a black body.



But if we take a detailed look with an appropirate teleskope we can see this:



I would also like to mark Space, Time and Matter can not be seen independently. So I have to make this also abit clearer.
Mass tells spacetime how to curve. And curved spacetime tells mass how to move. I think that is the essence of Einsteins field equation.

The third thing is far more difficult to explain. Even if we have empty space and you look on tiny time intervalls you will have particls apear and disapear from nothing. This process will become even more intense if one chooses the time intervall smaller. This can also be seen as boiling spacetime an is a very fractal process.

Hermann

[stereoman]

No. Just googled it and it can be a art school, a figure, ... but perhaps you mean something else?

Gnomon, geometrically, is the name given to a form which, added to the original, retains its shape and proportions.
  In the picture we have a case of gnomonic and fractal growth.
  In the cut of the brain, we see a nuclear form, which has been replicated via gnomon.
   As the brain is built trough time-space overlays, it follows that the time  is locked inside, we can see this clearly in the shell of a Nautilus, the gnomonic growth allows us to see all her life at once.
    In the brain is obvious that the growth has been much more complex, but the idea that time is locked in the interior, is confirmed by studies that speak about three brains from different ages.
   
    

[stereoman]

The third thing is far more difficult to explain. Even if we have empty space and you look on tiny time intervalls you will have particls apear and disapear from nothing. This process will become even more intense if one chooses the time intervall smaller. This can also be seen as boiling spacetime an is a very fractal process.

Hermann

 That´s because space is effectively fractal, space has the dimensions of the observer, it´s not easy to explain, as you said, but I have found the same trying to find  a geometrical point,
     mark a cross, the point, is where the lines cross, then draw a circle around the central point to make it visible, (if the circle is not drawn, the point is  not visible  to the observer)   the circle is now a point, but in his center, there´s still the lines crossing in an inner point,if you zoom over it , you can keep doing the same at infinitum, theoretically., In fact you can do it in a 3D modeling program.
    

[stereoman]

Like this, more or less,  (click the image to show motion)

[stereoman]

To understand the idea that time is somehow locked inside of things, we can take as an example the old game of spinning tops.
         The time the top is spinning his "lifetime" depends on the length of the rope that is thrown.
         The force of the shot is another important factor, but for our purposes, we don´t take it into account.
         The important thing is that the "lifetime" of the top depends on the length of the string, ie, has a preset limit from the time of release, time,unwinds like a spring .
         From this it follows that every living entity has a predetermined duration depending on its place in the scale.
         Indeed, our time, is inside of us.
        So it follows that, being spacetime our main reality, and assuming that fractals are a Universal process, time must have a fractal structure as we see in the nested times of our own organs, cells , mollecules and electrons , each of wich have it´s own time.
           On the other side, cosmic motion shows the same nested structure as years are made of months, months are made of weeks, and weeks are made of days, and so on.
          This same nested structure can be found in music, where each note, creates a series of nested harmonics, music occurs trough time.
         From the viewpoint of space, alone, it´s quite obvious that´s fractal.

[youhn]

...From this it follows that every living entity has a predetermined duration depending on its place in the scale.

While I agree on most statements of this post, I have to disagree on the statement above. You completely ignore other factors that will influence the lifetime of the spinning top. For example the air flowing around and against it, the shape and roughness of the surface on which it spins. Therefore the conclusion only holds if you really strip down to a universe where there is only the spinning top (with the string seen as long gone big bang ... or perhaps inflation is a better comparison).

Organs could have their own time-cycles or rhythm, but they share (about the same) lifespan as all other organs, which are connected within the living creature.

I like the comparison with music. That's a pretty hard subject to analyse, because it is so very ... subjective. Which makes it interesting of course. I have read some analyses on details like songs, chords(progressions), etc. But how about an analysis on the grammar within melodies, seen over a timespan of a lifetime. If anyone knows anything in that direction ... please let me know.

[stereoman]

While I agree on most statements of this post, I have to disagree on the statement above. You completely ignore other factors that will influence the lifetime of the spinning top. For example the air flowing around and against it, the shape and roughness of the surface on which it spins. Therefore the conclusion only holds if you really strip down to a universe where there is only the spinning top (with the string seen as long gone big bang ... or perhaps inflation is a better comparison).

Organs could have their own time-cycles or rhythm, but they share (about the same) lifespan as all other organs, which are connected within the living creature.

I like the comparison with music. That's a pretty hard subject to analyse, because it is so very ... subjective. Which makes it interesting of course. I have read some analyses on details like songs, chords(progressions), etc. But how about an analysis on the grammar within melodies, seen over a timespan of a lifetime. If anyone knows anything in that direction ... please let me know.

 I  have not taken account of any other factor, because I was trying to make visible the idea that the life of everything is predetermined, I agree that there are many other factors, but a human being does not live 800 years.
         However, the idea that a cell lives while the organ lives is completely wrong, every 7 years every cell in your body have been replaced, which keeps your organized body, are not cells, but the ratio.
          The lifetime of an electron is undetectable, what we can detect is the repetition of its orbit, its sixth dimension.
          The old music was Objective Art, search in that direction.

[stereoman]

Understandably mathematicians wish to clarify all based on numbers, it is quite true that the number is behind things.
       But the fact remains that the problems of space-time are of geometric nature, not mathematics.
       And geometry was not only the principal of Sciences, but is the source of them all.
       Geometry is traditionally represented as a highborn lady, while mathematics is represented by a common midwife,
       Geometry is the daughter of drawing, wich in turn is the son of the eye, wich it´s just the lens of our inner being.

[youhn]

Well said. Mathematics is just a tool to interpret and predict our world in a scientific-quantitative manner.