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Author Topic: Deep Minibrot | E2106 | 2^6998 |  (Read 3974 times)
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panzerboy
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 01:23:30 AM »

...  isnt there a hardware out there that can help to achieve arbitrary calculcation depth???

People have used FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) to do wide bit arithmetic in one hit.
You'd be designing the arithmetic using hundreds of thousands of logic cells, a non-trivial task.
There's a language called VHDL you do that in.
Clock rates are generally slow, hundreds of Mhz, there would be latency from communication over the PCI bus similar to a GPU card.
People that have done it for mandelbrots have generally use development boards that include an on chip CPU, so ARM or MIPS + FPGA.
The PCI cards are expensive.
http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-K7-KC705-G.htm $1695
http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-V7-VC707-G.htm $3495

A far more financially palatable option would be to use the GPU.
FastFractal256 used CUDA, but it was an primitive program with nothing to recommend it other than the fast render.

Problem is, apart from we few Fractalers there a few applications for wide arithmetic so there's nothing specific off the shelf.
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Dinkydau
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 01:57:33 AM »

Thanks for the replies

You're just about at the 7200 zoom limit!
I'm leaving room for new records although I can't imagine no one has done a render at that depth before. With the amazing speed of this program it would be easy.

Fractal extreme is an amazing program and well worth the money.

Your statement is the equivalent of saying "Your space ship can only take me to the edge of the known universe and you expect me to pay to use it?" 7200 zooms is INSANE and from the looks of that image, he was only able to even render as deep of an image into the Mandelbrot set as he did is because the location is in far west on the x axis, an area that renders relatively quick compared to most other interesting areas.

You give me a program that can render images/videos this fast and this deep and is as user friendly and extendable as Fractal extreme and I'll gladly pay for it.


But the mandelbrot set has infinitely small details. 7200 zooms is nothing compared to infinity.

I indeed chose this location because of the shorter rendering time

i'm a bit curious. what exactly is the thrill of theese deeper and deeper zooms. they don't seem to show up something new. is it just for breaking records?
e2106 seems more than insane, when you think our universe has a dimension of about e62 planck lengthes

i can remember how slow ultra fractal went with arbitrary precision even at e20, so i'm also interrested in the render time of an image like this (with all available interpolation tricks)
thanks in advance!
The interesting thing about this deep zoom is the fact that there is a small mandelbrot set at this depth made visible. Although we know that it doesn't matter how deep you zoom, there is always a smaller minibrot to find, I thought it was interesting to actually go there and render it. That's all actually.

The time this image took to render is only 4 days! Compared to the 11 months ultra fractal took to render a similar image for me at a depth of around 2^4500, this is a rediculous improvement. If I knew this I would have rendered it at a larger resolution.

the zoomed area isnt interesintg enough, paudel is searching the seahorse valle on really deep iterations, and he really yields interesting new views ...
we wont find anything REALLY new down there, but the structures get more complex, and the funny thing they are not equally complex, you
find any combination of arms-and-spirals you might imagine ... but traveling down there is the hell of time consuming, isnt there a hardware out
there that can help to achieve arbitrary calculcation depth???
It's not very interesting indeed. It renders fast at this location, but unfortunately it's also the most boring part. I really appreciate everyone's time exploring other more interesting parts of the mandelbrot set (and other fractals) though. But what you say about the arms is interesting indeed. At this depth the arms aren't even visible anymore because there's just too many of them, but the next thing on my to-do-list is to render this with the arms visible, which would require of course a higher resolution and maybe some more zooms.

There's an interesting discussion about computers here but I'll have to let that be for what it is because I don't know too much about that stuff.
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Pauldelbrot
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pderbyshire2
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 11:43:06 AM »

Problem is, apart from we few Fractalers there a few applications for wide arithmetic so there's nothing specific off the shelf.

Cryptography?
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panzerboy
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 12:22:15 PM »

I suspect Crypto-cracking is more likley.
The NSA probably doesn't want us to have hardware capable of wide arithmetic.
I imagine the No Such Agency has a warehouse full of servers with custom ASICs doing n-bit arithmetic.
Think of the Fractals they could create!
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Eric Bazan
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 12:24:24 AM »

This is impressive from a technical point-of-view, though an unremarkable image otherwise.

I must ask - what was the dwell limit, and time to render?
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Dinkydau
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2012, 01:27:45 AM »

What do you mean with dwell limit? Render time was 4 days, so not very long after all.
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Eric Bazan
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2012, 02:53:15 AM »

Maximum iteration. At which point the pixel is black and considered part of Mandelbrot set.
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Dinkydau
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2012, 04:10:22 AM »

I used 300000 for the image but I don't know how many iterations were actually needed.
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Dinkydau
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 07:13:46 PM »

Here is a new, anti-aliased render of this minibrot:


It's absolutely worth it to check out the original aliased render of 4000×3000 on deviantart:
http://dinkydauset.deviantart.com/art/2-7000-311048806
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LhoghoNurbs
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2012, 10:15:48 PM »

we wont find anything REALLY new down there

Are you sure? Have you been there?  wink
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rollercoaster158
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 10:20:19 PM »

An idea for the next project - zoom real deep into the general area where you found that minibrot, and instead of going straight for it, zoom into one of the tendrils on the edge so you get a minibrot with "peanuts" surrounding it. I imagine it would look a lot nicer.
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simon.snake
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simon.fez SimonSideBurns
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 11:03:38 PM »

The full size image was worth it, but it shows that the minibrot on the far right could have done with more iterations, I feel.

Other than that, the detail is so fine even anti-aliasing it still creates moire patterns.

Nice.

Simon
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Dinkydau
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 11:56:01 PM »

An idea for the next project - zoom real deep into the general area where you found that minibrot, and instead of going straight for it, zoom into one of the tendrils on the edge so you get a minibrot with "peanuts" surrounding it. I imagine it would look a lot nicer.
That would be better indeed. Unfortunately it's not possible to go much deeper than this with fractal extreme. 2^7200 is the max. I could do that with a new zoom starting at 0.

The full size image was worth it, but it shows that the minibrot on the far right could have done with more iterations, I feel.

Other than that, the detail is so fine even anti-aliasing it still creates moire patterns.

Nice.

Simon
I had saved the render at some point and continued it later, but it didn't save the iteration data. Now it starts all over if I add more iterations, unfortunately.
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rollercoaster158
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« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 01:24:22 AM »

Other than that, the detail is so fine even anti-aliasing it still creates moire patterns.

I actually like the moire patterns, they create a glitter-like effect with the stars.
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simon.snake
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simon.fez SimonSideBurns
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 09:40:56 AM »

I actually like the moire patterns, they create a glitter-like effect with the stars.

Me too, I wasn't saying they were bad, just an observation on how fine they were.

Simon
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To anyone viewing my posts and finding missing/broken links to a website called www.needanother.co.uk, I still own the domain but recently cancelled my server (saving £30/month) so even though the domain address exists, it points nowhere.  I hope to one day sort something out but for now - sorry!
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