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Author Topic: Fractal Analysis and Granular Computing?  (Read 2979 times)
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himalayanjava
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« on: March 17, 2007, 11:10:35 PM »

What is actually Fractal Analysis from Granular Computing perspective? and, Can we view fractals as granules like we do set, fuzzy set or rought set in GrC?
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himalayanjava
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2007, 11:44:20 PM »

GURUS, no where? Hey, what's happening? Plz, do put your views..whatever you think. that way only we can make the forum lively...
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 12:33:22 PM »

sorry, i do not get what you mean, what means GrC ?
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divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
lycium
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 12:51:23 PM »

sorry, i do not get what you mean, what means GrC ?

it's obviously short for "granular computing", whatever that is wink

as for keeping the forum lively, just because we don't have the background to discuss this thread doesn't mean the forum is "unlively" (dead?). perhaps you'd like to join our discussion on 3d fractal construction?
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himalayanjava
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 05:53:09 PM »

i don't mean that. I just mean to say that if there are someones who are related with computer, they might know how we can use FRACTALS, fractal dimensions and Fractal properties in other areas of computer science like Granular Computing because fractals are seen as granules like set, group, cluster, fuzzy set or rought sets or interval or divide and conquer etc...

Mostly, what we have seen is Fractals are beauty and beauties are now associating with ART and Graphic(Computer), but what about it's other applications/association?
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lycium
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 06:03:43 PM »

unfortunately i've never heard of granular computing before; if you could give an introduction to the concepts and methods, particularly as they relate to fractals, i would certainly be interested to apply them.

the wikipedia article is unfortunately light on concrete applications, or at least examples thereof, and quite technical. call me lazy, but seeing fruit at the top of the mountain is better motivation than just seeing the long path...
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Nahee_Enterprises
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 08:49:57 PM »

Thomas Ludwig (lycium) wrote:
>
>    unfortunately i've never heard of granular computing before....

Apparently, "himalayanjava" was asking the same basic questions on another forum (along with other fractal topics):

http://www.sciencechatforum.com/bulletin/search.php?search_author=himalayanjava&sid=fcf39b89ca4e7e878442c57eb76b9da6
http://www.sciencechatforum.com/bulletin/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3575&sid=5094ddd2f43f9e072ae24383f1e99d2c

It appears that "himalayanjava" happens to be a student at the university which once had a bulletin about Rough Set Theory:
    http://www2.cs.uregina.ca/~roughset/

This is the same university that Professor Yiyu Yao (Y.Y. Yao) published some documents on "Granular Computing" and "Rough Sets":
    http://www2.cs.uregina.ca/~yyao/
 
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lycium
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 09:24:54 PM »

as always paul, your sleuthing skills are second to none wink

with regard to granular computing, based on some reading around it seems like a fairly natural extension of causal reasoning ("if a then b") to include scale-specific, probabilistic information. i can see how this might be useful for something like machine learning, where inference problems typically deal with incomplete or noisy information (and therefore is an alternative to the better established bayesian methods) but for well-defined, computation-centric problems like fractals one actually wants as much precision as possible!

of course i'm not seeing the whole picture, but what little i have seen seems quite remote from the familiar landscape of fractal generation; once again i'd be interested to hear from our friend with the long nickname about any particular fractal applications he has in mind, or at least why he associates the two fields.
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himalayanjava
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 10:31:23 PM »

Folks, yeah, i am searching and interacting here and there to get some direction on revealing some kind of relation between fractals and granular computing, not in pretty clear about the real application. I am interested to exploit its potential in granular computing paradigm instead of rought set, or  set theory or fuzzy sets  etc.

why is their potentiality?

In GrC, Information granules (sets) can be treated as linked collections(clumps) of objects drawn together by the criteria of indiscernibility, similarity or functionality.

And, in Fractal Analysis too, information granules (sets)  are used to quantify fractal dimension which decides how much a part of a phenomenon can be scaled up to a whole in terms of self-similarity or structure or complexity.

Hence, there could exist some fascinating and potential linkage between fundamental concepts of fractals and granular computing and the idea of fractals can exploit development of granular modeling.

i am also new in this field...let's see if there is something precious in the cave!
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 09:43:11 AM »

Thomas Ludwig (lycium) wrote:
>
>    as always Paul, your sleuthing skills are second to none  wink

Nothing is ever truly hidden to those that wish to find.   grin

>
>    i can see how this might be useful for something like machine learning,
>    where inference problems typically deal with incomplete or noisy information
>    (and therefore is an alternative to the better established bayesian methods)...

Which is somewhat similar to my own assessment.  Just not sure I see the potential in relation to fractals.
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lycium
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 01:07:39 PM »

Nothing is ever truly hidden to those that wish to find.   grin

if there were two of you, you could start an intelligence agency!

>    i can see how this might be useful for something like machine learning,
>    where inference problems typically deal with incomplete or noisy information
>    (and therefore is an alternative to the better established bayesian methods)...

Which is somewhat similar to my own assessment.  Just not sure I see the potential in relation to fractals.

there may be some theoretical uses, but as for the computational practice of actually generating images (bearing in mind that fractals are geometric things, which are meant to be seen) i think the case is closed :|
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