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Author Topic: Password protected parameters sharing!!  (Read 3089 times)
Description: Is just a ideea to stop thiefs from outside FF to steal paremeters....
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Tahyon
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« on: September 24, 2012, 05:38:21 PM »

Probably it happened to all of you that somebody form outside FF took parameters from your work and used for his own business ... well it happened to me and im sure that it happened to you as well
I see lately on FB so many artworks toked from DA and fractal forum
My question is if Jess could implement such a script when you save your params a password is generated along with so when somebody try to open it it'll ask for the password and the only person who has it , is the one that created the fractal ...thaht way it'll be fair for all and thief's from outside wont be able to take everything for free without learning....i mean this beautiful softwares should be learned and used in the right way , sharing parameters sometimes has the opposite result leading to stealing instead of study, i mean a real fatalist would take time to understand the formulas and the fractal software that he's using ....im referring here at Mandelbulb 3D, probably it'll boost artists creative power by force them to learn and understand the program instead of tweaking same parameterrs over and over.
Please dont take it personally, im not intending to say anything, but i see so many copy's of copy's on DA on FF on FB, once passwrod is implemented , probably the diversity of fractals will raise...

Is justa ideea...i assume the responsibility for what im saying here and if is not a good idea , then im sorry...it was just a personal idea , dont have to take as a personal atack , but probably you would love to prtect in a way your work and not aloud to any oustsider to have free acees to your hard work for free...

Thx and i wait reply ...  wink


with repsect !
Tahyon
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Kali
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 07:25:58 PM »

This could be done with something like PGP. At first I thought it was pointless, because you simply don't publish your params, and only share by request, privately, with the ones you want. But it could be annoying to send params anytime some of your trusted contacts request them (you have to look for the desired param, find it, copy&paste, send msg). But by encoding params always with the same passkey you distribute with the ones you want to share with, could be really helpful, and it's a good idea indeed.

I don't know if Jesse will have the time to do something like this, but I can write a simple clipboard encrypter/decrypter, so you copy the params to the clipboard, run the program to encrypt the clipboard contents with a password and then paste the encrypted params. The ones who wants to get the params, obviously must have this program also to decrypt the clipboard before pasting to M3D, using the password you gave them. What do you think?
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Jesse
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 07:30:15 PM »

Hello Tahyon,

it is clear that publishing parameters is always a kind of gift to the public, so it is up to you if you want it or not.
Many people also change the parameters slightly to not give away all work like the lighting, just alter it with a light preset and a quality preset as well if you like.
In this forum a password protected zip archive would be another possibility, for example, but i see no urgent need for this because you could send them to specific persons directly, instead of sharing a password in a non-public way  huh?

Just a few quick thoughts, with respect to all artists and sharer of parameters,
J.
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LMarkoya
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 07:44:17 PM »

I agree with Jesse on this one. You choose to share or not share your params.....this is done on an image by image basis. There will always be someone to steal your image, your idea or technique, encryption will not change this. As an artist you share or not share. Personally, I very much appreciate everyone who shares params, as I'd rather be painting fractals in my artwork than spending countless hours discovering things that others have already. So...it comes down to individual feelings. Do you think your fractal is valuable? (really?) Do you care if it is copied? Then you should not post params.
I have used starters for several works, I give credit almost always, but am always thankful for anyone who posts params...
To me, they are the jump off point, at times a life saver, and an inspiration
Posting starter params is part of what made FF so special
And I am sure I am not the only one....
Sure you, Torsten, Johan and others don't use them, but for mere mortals, they are what the doctor ordered and I'm thankful they are there to use (without having the key to open them cheesy )
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Kali
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 08:12:12 PM »

Hello Tahyon,

it is clear that publishing parameters is always a kind of gift to the public, so it is up to you if you want it or not.
Many people also change the parameters slightly to not give away all work like the lighting, just alter it with a light preset and a quality preset as well if you like.
In this forum a password protected zip archive would be another possibility, for example, but i see no urgent need for this because you could send them to specific persons directly, instead of sharing a password in a non-public way  huh?

Just a few quick thoughts, with respect to all artists and sharer of parameters,
J.

If you read my previous message, I thought the same at first, and I also think is pointless if the idea is to password-protect each params with different passwords and then sharing the password by request (I mean, just send them the params instead! grin). But if you have, let's say, 20 people you want to share params without certain people having the access to it, you'll have to send 20 PM's, or maybe use a closed group on a social network like Facebook, wich is not very handy... and also if 2 months after publishing a work, someone request your params, you have to look for the file, extract the params, send PM, etc. - This could be easily done if you give the pass to certain persons and always share the params using the same pass. It doesn't have to be a gift to either ALL the public or nobody, it's not a bad idea to share only with the ones you want in an easy way, I think. As a fractal artist (let's pretend I can be called an artist grin) I'm not specially jealous of my works, but it's not funny when someone is not giving credit after taking something from you, or even worse, claiming it as own work.

Anyway I can work on a handy param crypter, don't waste your time on this, Jesse, keep making M3D even more awesome instead grin
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CeleXaoS
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 09:13:14 PM »

i think that this would be a good addition to m3d (for those who create unique pieces of fractal art of course) .... but the parameters should still be available for every fractal-forums member if not for the ''outside world''. otherwise such a change could easily generate distinctions. what if a member is denied the use of some parameters ??isn't this a bit unfair ??

Yes it is... smiley 


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Jesse
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 01:00:21 AM »

If you read my previous message,

Yes, if i had read it  wink

Ok, this is a special case that makes sense, but a seperate crypter would be also quite handsome... if you could make this it would be nice!

Quote
...
Anyway I can work on a handy param crypter, don't waste your time on this, Jesse, keep making M3D even more awesome instead grin

Unfortunately i have not much time for programming at the moment, and further improvements would be much time intensitive because of much internal changes that had to be done  undecided

Nevertheless m3d is already become much more than i ever expected, for me its ok  A Beer Cup
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lxh
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 07:25:07 AM »

Hmmm ... I'm not sure if there's a big difference if params or a password is going round. But an embezzled master password is much worse than one "stolen" parameter. Right?

Edit: But if it's possible to export "untweakable" and unreadable parameters or animation files? This could be useful for a renderfarm. Autohotkey remoting m3d for example ...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 07:32:21 AM by lxh » Logged

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Tahyon
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 10:10:11 AM »

is just a ideea, of course  everybody is free to share its parameters if he want, but i was talking about what hapenned to me ...that a local t-shirt printing company took the params form the eye of anubis , render it at higher res and printed on t-shirt....of course nobody put me to share the params of my work , but i wanted to share with friends on FF not with thief around the world, thats why i came with this idea, which is just a idea...also sharing parameters has lead to oposite results instead of study, they end up tweaked over and over again with no diversity whatso ever....anyway ...i just try to come with a ideea to protect M3D users...of course everybody si free to share them or not, but a optional bult in crypting parameter  save would be welcome if is not much trouble with

Is just a idea, maybe not a good one at the end, so im sorry for that !;) A Beer Cup A Beer Cup
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 12:38:14 PM »

i think as option it is not bad at all, BUT if you publish your formula with a passwort, or say somewhere how your password is, i dont see how this could prevent people from using it ... on orbittrap.ca there was a discussion about how far goes the propriety of an artist, basically changing just one parameter would make a totally new copyright issue, check this posting:

"Can you really copyright an Ultra Fractal parameter file?"
http://orbittrap.ca/?p=1867
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taurus
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 12:57:02 PM »

just my five cent.

when i listen to the net i hear on one hand complaint about copyright issues with music in animations, on the other hand problems with rip offs of original fractal art work.
there is no valid solution for both problems, but one thing obviously noone here thougt about: giving your parameter a license - creative commons seems to be apt and is available for almost any purpose. for sure, if someone really wants to steal your work, no license will hinder him, but to be honest, pasting parameters without any addition is like an invitation to rip them off.

imho encrypting is more like cracking nuts with a slegdehammer...

but as said, just my five cent. grin
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Tahyon
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 02:53:39 PM »

a encrypted parameter wont  open in M3D unless the password is provided, at least thats how i imaged, makes no sense at first view, but thiefs wont have acces anymore to free params.....im worried about the thiefs hat come here with no restriction , im not worried of the fair users of the softwares...i will always share with themand im sure that anybody will do same, but i see guys from FB coming here ripping and posting on facebook as they own work , thats something thats really crank me up...not sharing params because those thiefs is not fair for the fair comunitty , thats why i asked if possible password encrytpion in the params so they wont be able to open it in M3D without password...that way users can post params in safe way and if someone like it he can ask him for the pass...i will always share that way, but i really dont want that guys from facebook that has nothign to do with fractals are ripping for free...

Also the simple view of the parameters with image without being able to open it it'll make thiefs loosing their mind hahahahah, is a mean way to make them stay away ...smiley)lol
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 03:00:34 PM by Tahyon » Logged
thargor6
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2012, 02:57:00 PM »

Hmm, I can't see the point here. If you publish params then for tweaking or educative purposes. So the sense is that other people copy them. And if you want to keep them secret then you don't publish them :-)
Of course, there are always poor people who just copy the stuff and claim that's their own. But this is a general problem and can not be solved. For example some of them download my pictures from dA and upload them at other sites as their own.

So the idea itself to adress those kind of problems is good, but I think it will not work.

Best regards
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:58:50 PM by thargor6 » Logged
Tahyon
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 03:06:26 PM »

it's a kind of kick in the balls for thiefs , they can see the parameter and in theyr hury to steal it they try to open it and BINGO smiley))) suprise...password .....of course nobody has to share parameters if they dont want...
it makes no sense after all , but i would want to share my parameters with thiefs that way encrypted, image thier face and disappointment smiley)
It was justa ideea, i was saying that ti much thiefs acces params for free
Please don't take it personally, is just another stupid ideea of mine wink
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taurus
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 03:31:31 PM »

it's a kind of kick in the balls for thiefs , they can see the parameter and in theyr hury to steal it they try to open it and BINGO smiley))) suprise...password

please don't take personal, but i think i see your point now.
what you want is not fair use, what you want is revenge!
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