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Author Topic: MC Renderer  (Read 2161 times)
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lxh
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« on: March 24, 2013, 07:11:31 AM »

Hi Jesse,

first of all a big THANK YOU for implementing the MC renderer. I don't want to moan about the well known tuning- and calculation-expenditure that comes with this method but ...

I really miss a percentage slider for the influence of secondary resp. indirect lighting. Gamma and exposure is not the same because it affects the whole image including ambient and direct lighting.

In this example i tried to illuminate the scene by secondary light coming from the floor. But it doesn't work the way i imagined that. Is there a way to regulate the strength of GI?



« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 07:47:33 AM by lxh » Logged

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Jesse
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 02:34:58 PM »

Hi lxh,

it is possible to enhance the ambient occlusion by the settings of:
'Ambient rays depth', that means how many diffuse reflections in a row (meaning a random light reflection is reflected again and again... ) are calculated

and by the length of those rays that are calculated at maximum, that is given by 'MaxL' in the AO postprocessing tab for the DEAO function!
You can send the parameters from MC to main, then change the value there, and import back.

Of course render time depends strongly on these settings, check if you can increase the raystep multiplier.

Also the intern gamma setting (I2 on the lighting tab) and the diffuse colors itself got an influence of the ambient strength.
A lighter diffuse color reflects more light...

good luck

ps, does not look that bad the way it is
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 02:41:37 PM by Jesse » Logged
lxh
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 03:06:11 PM »

... that is given by 'MaxL' in the AO postprocessing tab for the DEAO function!
Ah, yeah, got it. Wow ... cheesy
I never thought of 'damped' rays by DEAO. Man, i think no one here did.
Thanks a lot, Jesse!
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Jesse
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 12:33:58 AM »

Ah, yeah, got it. Wow ... cheesy
I never thought of 'damped' rays by DEAO. Man, i think no one here did.
Thanks a lot, Jesse!

Hmm, spending houndreds of hours for all the functualities and saving 1 minute for not mentioning this in the readme,
seems a good compromise for me  cheesy
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lxh
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 08:19:23 AM »

Hehe, this is the keyword. Saving time and compromise:

A higher value of MaxL brings up longer rays and as consequence more secondary light but it seems that it kills the ambient light proportionally.

As you can see here (MaxL 10 with dramatically increased calculation time), the foreground has a nicer diffuse 'ground light' but the background lost its ambiance.



Well, in this case i've made a lazy compromise and layered these two images plain but ...



Is there a way to get longer rays AND ambient light in one single rendering?
Or .. an optional ZBuffer output from the MC renderer could help to mix it the _right_ way.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 08:34:03 AM by lxh » Logged

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lxh
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 10:13:30 AM »

Anyway ... please forget my question, Jesse.
MaxL 10 is a little bit too high an not really necessary. Beside that i can screw up the ambient light.
But tuning MC is killer. And i'd better never seen Octane renderer's workflow and performance. undecided
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:35:05 AM by lxh » Logged

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taurus
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 12:11:28 PM »

And i'd better never seen Octane renderer's workflow and performance. undecided
I did not see, but I saw the specifications. Looking good at a surprisingly moderate price...
But to compare this with m3d is not really fair wink
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lxh
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 01:01:36 PM »

But to compare this with m3d is not really fair wink
Yeah, you are right Torsten. And i am sorry for that. But i just saw ...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CZ1IRQTqMMY&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CZ1IRQTqMMY&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>

... and other impressive demonstrations and i seriously consider to invest in some hard- and software. To bad that there is no way around voxelstack at the moment, but this is where the journey goes.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 01:03:09 PM by lxh » Logged

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blob
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 01:44:05 PM »

You've always got the option of post-processing your renders in a tonemapping application such as Picturenaut or Luminance HDR (both free).
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taurus
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 02:17:29 PM »


... and i seriously consider to invest in some hard- and software.


Good luck! Only the rendering Machine used in this demo has the exchange value of a compact car. Not to mention the energy costs...

But seriously, the most impressive thing with those renderers is the interactivity. I never cared about final rendering time of some hours, at least for still-frames. But a realtime preview of that quality really kicks!

You've always got the option of post-processing your renders in a tonemapping application such as Picturenaut or Luminance HDR (both free).

I'm not up to date. With 48bit pngs this would really make sense. Does m3d produce pngs of that depth?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:20:13 PM by taurus66 » Logged

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lxh
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 02:43:37 PM »

You've always got the option of post-processing your renders in a tonemapping application such as Picturenaut or Luminance HDR (both free).
Thanks for the input blob. HDR might be an option in this case and i'll give it a try. But i will prevent multiple mc renderings from now on. smiley

Good luck! Only the rendering Machine used in this demo has the exchange value of a compact car.
No no no, hehe. I won't sell my car to buy a computer. grin
But one good single gpu like nvidia titan in my comp should do a good job.
And yes! It's all about tuning. Tuning lights and materials in nearly realtime. Not the final rendertime is the prob ...
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hobold
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 02:49:37 PM »

i seriously consider to invest in some hard- and software.
Beware that this demo was probably rigged in some way. Nothing major, no fakes and such, but I strongly suspect we are being shown a best case. This is advertisement after all.

For example, why did they turn motion blur off? True, it wasn't really needed for such a static scene. But don't you think they would have bragged about being able to do motion blur as well, if only they actually could do that with perfect performance scaling, too?

There is probably a bottleneck updating the scene for different points in time during rendering. So before you spend a mountain of money, try to get a hands-on demo specifically for you, for your scenes and your workflow.
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lxh
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 03:11:45 PM »

So before you spend a mountain of money, try to get a hands-on demo specifically for you, for your scenes and your workflow.
Thanks a lot for your warning, hobold. I know what you mean and i will not run out right now spending a mountain of money. wink
Sooner or later every budget gpu can do this. The challenge is to find a good and economical method to let fractal images benefit of this technology.
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taurus
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 04:01:37 PM »

Sooner or later every budget gpu can do this.

Important point. a radeon 7870 or a GTX660 has about 70% of the titan perfomance but costs 1/5. When you're using it to earn money and every minute costs, take the big one. In every other case, i'd try to find a suitable compromise.
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blob
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 04:08:04 PM »

I'm not up to date. With 48bit pngs this would really make sense. Does m3d produce pngs of that depth?

I don't think M3D outputs 48bit pngs but I might be wrong and failed to see the option. Still worth a shot with LDR pngs IMO even though it's not optimal you still can get interesting/decent/suitable results.
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