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Author Topic: rotboxes: mandelbulber vs. abox platinum  (Read 7977 times)
Description: a comparison of rotbox implementation
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taurus
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« on: August 11, 2012, 08:38:58 AM »

lately i learned, how to port my mandelbulber rotboxes to m3d. the results of a flat parameter exchange do not lead to exact copies. after testing some, the resuts vary from pretty similar to barely recognizable. the comparisons here will contain the visuals of a flat parameter conversion and an abox platinum tweak, that tries to bring the conversion closer to original. unfortunately the abox platinum formula has no "mandelbulber" button, so this will only be an approximation  wink

things, that can't be converted:
  • mandelbulber has a nifty mandelbox coloring algorithm with many parameters to finetune. there is nothing comparable in m3d, so this comparison will be in b/w to keep the focus on forms
  • mandelbulbers fish eye camera has no match in m3d. parameters shot with fish eye camera in original images will be compared in three point perspective

things, i can't convert yet:
  • deeper zoomed msets - even copy/pasted camera coords won't find the right things, maybe sometime i learn how to use the zstart/zmid/zend and zoom to make it.
    when possible (in mandelbulber impossible for some params), they will be converted to julia sets, where significant elements can be found much easier

here comes th first. a julia conversion of this one (original: mset zoomed at 1e13)

even the flat conversion is pretty close to original.
images as follows:
mandelbulber        m3d flat conversion        abox platinum good guess



last but not least the parameters of the platinum tweak
Code:
Mandelbulb3Dv18{
b.....S....U0...u1...26...EuC6EhJ2hwzCuLFeIcKD2EbcaP4MKW..ImOAnjdVlzz0bI86hWdtyj
................................vsR52FOdr.2........Y.ZG/................o.2...wD
...Uz......Y..../Q.1/.....U.3...i8....E5.....Q1/SAnyZWmD/Q.........G0dkpXm1.....
z.UaNadD12../2UaWVj87cfzz2Les6pQzvzjQp18jc5Duz9............u1....y1...sD...../..
.zHnAnoDlhcEo2nk9w9avUclpEF2zszNfr1CCMmDwobuPMJ6bwHC6RwtzqD1zgZHQ7BwX5kD7uQVowYj
1wvx5xpFSHT7zINBDb0qPElj......YY/...F0....UaNadD.6....sD2.E.....................
.............oAnAt1...wD....z.rbv9.2Uij.k0uy0.Jcv9.wVij.E8uy0.ncv9......C/...k1.
.....AQxcz1.......kz.wzzz1.U..6.Y....g2...EB....m....c2....F....6/...I1.....SF52
...U.06U.yDk.1wz.06Uz1Ak.16.2AqzdbSu...MarH7iXyD4oa4dabdnz1..........2.28.kFrA0.
.Ub96aAIVz9.1se7Umvxz0........../EU0.wzzz1...........s/...................E.2c..
zzzz.............0...................2./8.kzzzD............8....................
/EU0.wzzz1...................................wzzz1.k.1AUY/kzzzD..1Ak.a6.zzzz..Ak
.1s5/wzzz1.k.1AUP4kzzzD..1Ak.eS.zzzz..Ak.1600wzzz1.k.1AUd7kzzzD..1Ak.8f.zzzz..Ak
.1Mz0wzzz1.k.1AU...cU08czz/cU08cyz1cU08cxz3cU08c................................
E....2....E.....I....w....EE0x4SElKMoZaPppaE..........................k/.MU/4...
.ok.1Ak.0.kAnAnAnAnwz0........yD........kz1.......U7./.......E/E........Q.oSIsuF
Vf5Zzg53iSIsuFtD..........UJCoWgRyyvz.....................EnAnAnAnAvz0..........
........................}

have fun!
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DarkBeam
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 04:44:24 PM »

Have you tried to change destop? Probably it makes a little difference.  wink Btw awesome job
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taurus
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 02:47:54 PM »

Have you tried to change destop? Probably it makes a little difference.

i tried and it makes a little difference, but not as desired.  wink
i have annother suspicion related to the mset. my approach to find my snakehead in mset seemed quite promising. i grabbed a point of it in mandelbulber and pasted the coordinates to cutting planes in m3d. at the intersection of theese planes i should find it. i was a bit surprised, that in m3d there is nothing but fresh virtual air...  huh?

there must be some deformation or whatsoever at that deep stages in mset and as the julia-set is directly related to forms here, i guess a 1on1 transfer of julia constants can't lead to identical fractals.

so the next step can be, to finetune julia-coords before proceeding. some other candidates, that differ almost beyond recognition support that thesis, but more on this later.

mandelbulber intersection mset                                                      m3d intersection mset

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lenord
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 03:15:24 AM »

Incredible Crossover piece man, that's definitely the closest thing to your Bulber Rotboxes I've seen out of MB3D. Always loved that Snakehead, Had to have a go at those params myself.
http://len1.deviantart.com/art/Shadow-Lake-for-Taurus66-321002677
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taurus
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 01:21:16 PM »

thanks len! you did a great piece out there @ da (still got no account there, so i couldnt comment) and annother thanks for the dedication - much appreciated!. most of my rather limited knowledge of m3d i gained while studying your parameters, so i'm glad (and it's just fair), that i could give something in return now.

keep up and have fun! A Beer Cup
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taurus
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 08:59:35 PM »

just a ticket here - didn't invent further


original was this one

Sea invader http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8715 was a julia from the beginning (constants a bit outside the related mset) and taken with simulated fish eye.
shots below in 3point perspective

the result is disappointing. sad terribly slow in m3d, not really similar and still coarse quality

mandelbulber                                                                                     m3d flat conversion


the params for those, who really want to try something
Code:
Mandelbulb3Dv18{
b.....w....k1...E4...2U....HdJr4r6u/.T2tSnJUSL.Ev/PLycnPnz9F.IstBUmszaRSLWDdmB.k
................................oO3QofgHV.2........Y.ZG/................y.2...wD
...Uz............Q.1/.....ENB...NC....E5.....A/dUQbXK1nD/..........G0dkpXm1.....
z.UaNadD12../2kF64ZXqP0..1/TJ37fP/.k3LytZE6Mwz1............u1....y1...sD...../..
.znAnAnD5KhS3/kDUwfmqUZEaKjDz0Rw1ecKkHmjfhe0EVQnrwXnhq.loX7zywl2SMn5/TnjOyAruuAN
qwHuxJWQL8Y8zelpw36pnJnD......I2K.........UaNadD.6....sD2.E.0...................
.............oAnAt1...wD....z.rbv9.2Uij.k0uy0.Jcv9.wVij.E8uy0.ncv9......d/...k1.
.....AQxcz1..........wzzz1.U..6.W....g2...EB....m....c5....F....6/...IXw....SF52
...U.06U.yDk.1wz.06Uz1Ak.16.2AqzdbSu...alwF.HWwj4A72QifFDz1..........2.28.kFrA0.
.Ub96aAIVz9.1se7Umvxz0........../EU0.wzzz1...........s/...................E.2c..
zzzz............F....................2./8.kzzzD............8....................
/EU0.wzzz1...................................wzzz1.k.1AUY/kzzzD..1Ak.a6.zzzz..Ak
.1s5/wzzz1.k.1AUP4kzzzD..1Ak.eS.zzzz..Ak.1600wzzz1.k.1AUd7kzzzD..1Ak.8f.zzzz..Ak
.1Mz0wzzz1.k.1AU...cU08czz/cU08cyz1cU08cxz3cU08c................................
E....2....E.....I....w....EE0x4SElKMoZaPppaE..........................k/.MU/4...
.ok.1Ak.0.UNaNaNaNawzeNaNaNaNaxD........kz1.......U8./.......E/E........E.2.....
...................................wz...........................................
........................}

but there is still hope, take a look at my avatar and you see something similar morphing through...
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Jesse
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2012, 03:51:44 PM »

Bulber rotates the Z-axis first, m3d the X-axis!

Did a quick program to convert the angles between both programs, but there seems to be some more differences because of different DE calculations or other things, dunno.

Attached the proggy plus params for a more closer approach of your params, still very slow i think?


* AngleConverter.zip (157.23 KB - downloaded 360 times.)
* taurus si m3d.m3p (1.93 KB - downloaded 262 times.)
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taurus
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2012, 08:33:32 PM »

man you're crazy! and you're a genius. dunno how, but it works precisely.
since i am here, i often asked myself, what all my pretty good school grades in math were worth. now i know: nothing!  wink

just a big THANK YOU! the first part of this quest is done! due to your knowledge...

Quote
Bulber rotates the Z-axis first, m3d the X-axis!

i'm still curious: how did you find out? did you call buddhi? or, just examining his sources?
not to ask why you took all this effort...

i'm still stuck with mandelbulber, cause i got used to almost two years, but i can say, the support of m3d -jesse's and darrkbeam's to be precise - is simply unbeatable!

stay tuned, i'll prepare some  grin
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taurus
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2012, 10:57:18 PM »

this was a ticket yesterday, now it's an almost perfect match. thanks jesse!

original was this (mset @ 1e6)

no platinum guess needed (while i'm still thankful for this all in one formula)

still a julia conversion, but i'll try some mset soon
didn't take care of exact match, only tried to carry the spirit, that's why i didn't remove colors - they are quite similar here.



bulber parameter:
Code:
Mandelbulber 1.121;
image_width 864;
image_height 648;
view_point_x -3.8860699098638989;
view_point_y -5.736567984288313;
view_point_z -9.2350002675527652;
angle_alfa 156.0476962450652;
angle_beta 23.465363185856511;
angle_gamma -293.12755749337788;
zoom 1.5;
perspective 1.1000000000000001;
formula 8;
power 2;
N 255;
quality 4;
smoothness 3;
julia_mode 1;
julia_a 0.53812544135132778;
julia_b -1.8477965061088111;
julia_c -1.2844414256860299;
DE_factor 0.5;
brightness 0.80000000000000004;
shadows_intensity 0.29999999999999999;
ambient_occlusion 2.5;
ambient_occlusion_quality 3;
specular 2;
glow_intensity 0.10000000000000001;
glow_color_1_R 65535;
glow_color_1_G 1935;
glow_color_1_B 0;
glow_color_2_R 64715;
glow_color_2_G 65535;
glow_color_2_B 0;
background_color_1_G 0;
background_color_1_B 0;
background_color_2_R 0;
background_color_2_G 0;
background_color_2_B 0;
background_color_1_G 0;
background_color_1_B 0;
coloring_random_seed 23423;
coloring_speed 200;
post_fog_visibility 0.10000000000000001;
post_fog_visibility_front 40.946273183517562;
post_fog_color_R 65535;
post_fog_color_G 0;
post_fog_color_B 6237;
post_DOF_focus 40.899999999999999;
post_DOF_radius 21.399999999999999;
mandelbox_scale -1.3;
mandelbox_folding_min_radius 0.10000000000000001;
mandelbox_rotation_main_alfa 14.999999999999998;
mandelbox_rotation_main_beta 13;
mandelbox_rotation_main_gamma -5;
mandelbox_color_Sp1 3;
mandelbox_color_Sp2 1;

mb code:
Code:
Mandelbulb3Dv18{
b.....q....W0...u1...I2...UfMiszlKP3.vwNHoJyQczDku0uEWdTB.AyoA97f1z5.rCWs6ddTE/k
................................OLZYPTu9Y.2........Y.ZG/...............U//2...wD
...Uz.....kJ..../Q.0/.....Um0...h6....E5.....wcFNI8Y8.nD/Q.........G0dkpXm1....U
y.EnAngD12E.02E2wT5qGVHszo.Oq4lYEqzjFymnn7FXoz9............u1....y1...sD...../..
.z1...oDmN1nyEZTIwPeO7Dv4KB9zWLaIjQa4Blj.6SeV6EHiwvzImzKsMP2zI5SIzcgVPkD9s/RA19q
nv9W4otLxjR3zMbZ8q5fDsmj......YK/...s/....UaNadD.6....sD2.E.0.EmS3tPEvzDlZ8CGBrh
yz9LxUm9uFWyzqAnAt1...wD....z.rbv9.2Uij.k0uy0.Jcv9.wVij.E8uy0.ncv9......x....k1.
.....AQxcz1.......kz.wzzz1.U..6.Y....M2...EC....m....c3....F....6/...I1.....SF52
...U.0Ak.zzzzzzz....z1....6.2c..zzSi...Fbf24LNvD4.cXcESLfz1..........2.28.kFrA0.
.Ub96aAIVz9.1se7Umvxz0........../EU0.wzzz1...........s/...................E.2c..
zzzz.............0...................2./8.kzzzD...........k7....................
/EU0.wzzz1...................................wzz.0.E./2E1Pkzz16../2E.Ja1zzDU..2E
./Y1Kwzz.0.E./2EKolzz16../2E.J47zzDU..2E./IWaxzz.0.E./2Ekj4.zzD../2E.h9S.yzz..2E
./ovz/szz1.E./2E...cU08czz/cU08cyz1cU08cxz3cU08c................................
E....2....E.....I....w....EE0x4SElKMoZaPppaE..........................k/.MU/4...
.ok.1Ak.0.EnAnAnAnAxzeNaNaNaNavD........kzn7jD2WQA4A.RV0GDoQQN0E8J59u.heU.A.....
...................................wz...........................................
........................}
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Jesse
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2012, 11:55:53 AM »


i'm still curious: how did you find out? did you call buddhi? or, just examining his sources?


Fortunately Krzysztof's sources are much cleaner than mine's, no problem to find the matrix generation.
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taurus
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2012, 07:12:49 PM »

so theese are the real babes, the ones i came for. and - yay - i found out myself how to convert them, with a little help of darkbeam's second formula suggestion at http://www.fractalforums.com/feature-request/color-sliders-on-mandelbulb-3d/msg50878/#msg50878. most of my mandelbulbers base on this rotbox mod

will no longer compare dull b/w images here. jesse's conversion tool works so accurate - it's no longer needed...

so simply the original:


and the conversion:
(click on image to open full view)

and as i'm not afraid of competition - the parameters:
mandelbulber:
Code:
Mandelbulber 1.121;

image_width 1600;

image_height 1000;

view_point_x -2.011726860975886;

view_point_y -2.0392088655325331;

view_point_z 1.7785331809875231;

angle_alfa -80.841252955019996;

angle_beta -48.123383862962193;

angle_gamma -38.683534581576147;

zoom 0.0044999999999999997;

perspective 0.90000000000000002;

formula 8;

power 2;

N 255;

fractal_constant_factor 0.89600000000000002;

quality 1.6000000000000001;

brightness 0.80000000000000004;

reflect 2;

shadows_intensity 0.90000000000000002;

ambient_occlusion 2;

glow_intensity 0.10000000000000001;

glow_color_1_R 65535;

glow_color_1_G 1935;

glow_color_1_B 0;

glow_color_2_R 64715;

glow_color_2_G 65535;

glow_color_2_B 0;

background_color_1_R 65535;

background_color_1_G 51968;

background_color_1_B 34596;

background_color_2_R 49582;

background_color_2_G 26523;

background_color_2_B 26523;

background_color_1_G 51968;

background_color_1_B 34596;

coloring_random_seed 23423;

coloring_speed 150;

coloring_palette_offset 85.299999999999997;

post_fog_visibility 5;

post_fog_visibility_front 20;

post_fog_color_R 65535;

post_fog_color_G 65535;

post_SSAO_quality 30;

post_DOF_focus 22;

mandelbox_scale -1.1499999999999999;

mandelbox_folding_min_radius 0.40000000000000002;

mandelbox_rotation_main_alfa 13;

mandelbox_rotation_main_beta 5;

mandelbox_rotation_main_gamma 4;

mandelbox_color_X 0.050000000000000003;

mandelbox_color_Z 0.10000000000000001;

mandelbox_color_Sp1 0.5;

reflections_max 2;

and m3d:
Code:
Mandelbulb3Dv18{
b......1....7...S3...2U....hOSKQtJ4zzw7whbErEmzDjfVxf9o3..gwndqpZn2..bYlVJ5pmlzD
................................a0ISuPP9H02........Y./.................U4/2...wD
...Uz.....EVi.../Q.0/......1....KB....k9.....IUwC3Nay9eD/Q.........61dkpXm1.....
./....kD1A../............................................w2u1....y1...sD...../..
.z1...sD4cGrJkrrLuvyg3d2pknfyEJT4Mx2GQfjNwEqKHLZku11UBusvADhyowIsPmg6DeDXdGW9ehM
qun2kWPveNfdySOq84q6pfej.....zH6I/..0k........sD.6....PE2.E..kRcRphgK..kPOIzvWWH
..gZaM6FC25zzoAnAr1...sD....z.rbu3.2UeL.k0eS/.Jcu3.wVeL.E8eS/.ncu3......a/...k1.
.....AQxcz1...........c7.2.U.g5.v....M2...UE....T2...24....0....D/...U1.....SN52
...U.SHKFuzlci6fmsrV/IWFf/6.2c..zzSi..UAZRBEi7yD4UNAT2kY6z9..........2E28.UQgk0.
.wUmc2beYz1.dA8E5Exwz0........../.V0.sXTL0..SQcDqMitzu/BQKxV62zD/.........E.2c..
zzzz............r0...................2./8.kzzzD............8....................
/EU0.wzzz1...................................wzz.0kzzzzzkA0U.yD.zzzz.gD8lIO5.wzz
z1EvXxDU.0kzzzzzNtrzz16.zzzzzzdTzzDU.wzzzzj2zxzz.0kzzzzzXxrzz16.zzzzznvTzzDU.wzz
zzTwzxzz.0kzzzzz...cU08czz/cU08cyz1cU08cxz3cU08c................................
E....A....E.....I....6....kL/pKMuZaPb7oPs/UQ..........................k/........
..........UNaNaNaNawzeNaNaNaNaxD........kz1.....................................
................................................................................
.....................2.....3....1....wZIjFLMoJ4.................................
4MU/.................UzjiYSeSZ0E3NQMbQC1L.YHvM4RlyY/./..........................
................................................................................
................................/....E/...k.....T34NYB2.g34RZ/..................
................................BnAnAnAngzHnAnAnAnAvzoAnAnAnAnyD................
................................................................................
............................................}
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 07:23:05 PM by taurus66 » Logged

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willclark218
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 07:01:07 PM »

you do some absolutely beautiful work Taurus..
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quaestor
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Posts: 7


« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 05:19:55 PM »

Sorry for resurrecting a dead thread and then threadjacking it, but I'm trying to "port" some Mb Mandelbox parameters over to M3D (using the AmazingBox formula) with no success whatsoever sad . I've tried Jesse's tool, but regardless of how I paste the angles in, I don't get anything like what Mb renders. Is there any general information on how to do this? I'm happy to attach Mb parameter files, if that will help. Part of the problem here is that it's been a looong time since I did these Mb renders, so I don't even remember the details of how to use Mb sad
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taurus
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 05:48:38 PM »

Is there any general information on how to do this?
Normally not. The fractal constant factor can cause some irritations when different than 1, but all the rest is as shown here - no trickery hidden.

I'm happy to attach Mb parameter files, if that will help.
so I suggest to do it
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quaestor
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 05:31:51 PM »

Thank you for your reply. File is attached.

* lotus bud.fract (3.48 KB - downloaded 215 times.)
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