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Author Topic: the 3 wtc buildings were brought down by controlled demolition  (Read 1826 times)
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quaz0r
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« on: April 09, 2015, 09:42:28 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OQgVCj7q49o&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OQgVCj7q49o&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YW6mJOqRDI4&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/YW6mJOqRDI4&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8DOnAn&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/8DOnAn&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
http://ae911truth.org/
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Sockratease
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 12:01:49 AM »

Moved to  Non-Fractal related Chit-Chat as it does not seem to be a Fractal Math, Chaos Theory & Research sort of topic.

Granted, I did not watch the videos, so if I am mistaken, please let me know!
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panzerboy
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 06:46:30 AM »

9 hours of video!?
I've got better things to do.
Heres 4 minutes,
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/bMZ-nkYr46w&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/bMZ-nkYr46w&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
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quaz0r
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 11:03:37 AM »

even if every last inch of structural steel magically evaporated the instant the planes hit, only 2 of the 3 buildings that collapsed that day were hit by planes, and magically evaporated steel still doesnt explain how all those millions of tons of concrete could explode into pryoclastic clouds of microscopic pulverized dust at the acceleration of gravity  smiley
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panzerboy
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 12:18:46 PM »

I give you a video explaining how the steel lost strength due to heat and you talk of evaporated steel.
Know what a "Straw Man" argument is?

What millions of tons of concrete? http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/wtc/about/facts.html
425,000 cubic yards of concrete at 4000lb a yard thats 771,107 metric tonnes for the whole complex.
The concrete in the tower were the 4inch thick floor slabs, the rest of the structure was steel.
Most of that concrete will be in the foundations and below ground car parks.
The whole point of the design of the WTC towers was to keep the structure light to build it tall, hence a minimum of concrete.
Those clouds of dust are probably gypsum wallboard, plaster and sprayed fire resistant materials.
A pyroclastic flow is a super hot cloud of volcanic ash and lava particles.
People were coated in the dust but not burnt, it was not a pyroclastic flow.

Building 7 collapsed after 7 hours of fire and damage from north tower debris, this is not remarkable, to me.

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quaz0r
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 03:34:03 PM »

I give you the benefit of pretending your argument holds more weight than it does and you claim straw man?  curious.  perhaps you would care to tear down my "straw man" argument with facts, evidence, and science?  I say something about millions of tons of concrete to make a point about the obvious implications of real-world physics and your best retort is to state that perhaps the specific amount of concrete was over 3/4 of a million tons instead of a million or more?  Yet again, a curious focal point.  So let us revise what was said and say that hundreds of thousands of tons of structural steel and concrete were pulverized into clouds of microscopic dust at the acceleration of gravity in not one, not two, but 3 steel-framed skyscrapers that day, more than the number of skyscrapers that were hit by planes, and the first and last time in history that a steel-framed skyscraper "collapsed" due to fire.  What was your argument again?  I guess I lost track amidst all the facts and evidence.  If I missed some facts and evidence, dare I say even science, please, I implore you to set the record straight.
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youhn
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Shapes only exists in our heads.


« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2015, 05:51:29 PM »

On the internet there is no such thing as evidence.

Everything can be written.
Every text can be altered.
Every photo can be shopped.
Every identity can dissappear, or be created.
Every video can be faked.

So without any of these hard facts, logical arguments don't have any base at all.

If you want to discuss this thing over evidence, I suggest you arrange a real life meeting. Please don't bother trying to talk it through here on the forum, it won't work and I don't like it. I'm sure than over 80% of the people here are not interested aswell.
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quaz0r
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2015, 06:08:48 PM »

Quite a distressing statistic if indeed it is true that over 80% of scientifically and mathematically inclined people are not interested in discussing matters of fact and science.  If your belief that there is no such thing as evidence and logic precludes you from intelligently participating in the discussion, I welcome and encourage you to refrain from participating.  On the other hand, if logic and evidence do in fact exist, and you are not overcome with dismay at their existence, I welcome and encourage you to participate.

You are right though, anyone can cobble together a clip of audio or video.  For instance, I cut this 2 minute clip out of the aforementioned 9 hours of video I linked to that apparently is too lengthy and detailed for over 80% of people to find the time or desire to view or comment on:

http://filebin.net/6jklp7njsb/molten.mkv
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 06:24:36 PM by quaz0r » Logged
youhn
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2015, 08:33:03 PM »

Every non-robot person that claims they behave and discuss based on +50% logic and rationality is lying. Agreeing upon the basic stuff is kinda like emotion and belief, from there on you should have a common base. I doubt that you will find it here. So the discussion will not go past the emotional/belief/non-logical phase. I've seen this too many times over more than the last 10 years.

Let's vote. Anyone up for a poll?

No wait, let's not pull anyone in. Just see the reactions so far:

Sockratease: I did not watch the videos
panzerboy: 9 hours of video!? I've got better things to do.
me: Please don't bother trying to talk it through here on the forum

Should give a clear signal. Continuing would almost be trolling, so this will be my last message in this topic.
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Sockratease
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2015, 09:44:45 PM »

On the internet there is no such thing as evidence.

Everything can be written.
Every text can be altered.
Every photo can be shopped.
Every identity can dissappear, or be created.
Every video can be faked.

So without any of these hard facts, logical arguments don't have any base at all.

If you want to discuss this thing over evidence, I suggest you arrange a real life meeting. Please don't bother trying to talk it through here on the forum, it won't work and I don't like it. I'm sure than over 80% of the people here are not interested aswell.

Evidence is the same whether online or off.  All can be faked or misrepresented equally, so an online discussion is no more or less valid than any other - all must be taken as spurious and any extraordinary claims must be accompanied by extraordinary proof regardless of topic, source, or nature of the discussion.

If you don't like it, just stay away.  I don't like this topic either, nor do I think it belongs on Fractal Forums, but I respect quaz0r's right to discuss any topic he wants to discuss in our off topic area.  Please try to refrain from telling people what to do or how to do it unless they are WAY out of line and breaking site rules in some manner - at which point, have at 'em!

You will notice that my only question was about whether the videos linked to involved any sort of Fractal Analysis of the subject because this was originally posted in the Fractal Math, Chaos Theory & Research section.  Beyond that, I have had my fill of this topic years ago as well.

Quite a distressing statistic if indeed it is true that over 80% of scientifically and mathematically inclined people are not interested in discussing matters of fact and science.  If your belief that there is no such thing as evidence and logic precludes you from intelligently participating in the discussion, I welcome and encourage you to refrain from participating.  On the other hand, if logic and evidence do in fact exist, and you are not overcome with dismay at their existence, I welcome and encourage you to participate.

You are right though, anyone can cobble together a clip of audio or video.  For instance, I cut this 2 minute clip out of the aforementioned 9 hours of video I linked to that apparently is too lengthy and detailed for over 80% of people to find the time or desire to view or comment on:

http://filebin.net/6jklp7njsb/molten.mkv

Let's be fair - most of us are working adults and even one hour of video is a lot to ask somebody to sit through in order to discuss a topic that has been beaten to death for 14 years!  

As for my opinions on this topic, I feel much is left unanswered and we will never know the whole truth in our lifetimes.

But there is enough evidence on both sides of this discussion to prevent any firm conclusions being drawn.  If I were so inclined I am sure I could find just as many hours of video debunking conspiracy theories on this topic as supporting them.  The discussion will not be resolved here, but feel free to continue it in a civil manner and try not to argue too much please.  
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Tabasco Raremaster
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2015, 04:39:23 AM »

Well, one did speak out loud:"The Titanic can not sink!".
The Twin Towers were well known as structures that could not collapse. Earthquake ,Tornado and even bombing proof.

But hey, it takes a heavy weight to knock down a heavy weight.
A heavy weight filled up with kerosine just makes it easy.

Like if it was yesterday I remember the Bijlmerramp (The Bijlmer Disaster) in the Netherlands.
A Plane demolished two large appartement buildings after dropping the fuel.
Only 43 died and 23 injured because most people were not at home at the moment.
It was devastating such an impact the plane had.
Imagine what a larger plane loaded with fuel can do....

http://www.refdag.nl/polopoly_fs/anp_5572112_1_679699!image/405615011.jpg



* 405615011.jpg (100.04 KB, 1024x657 - viewed 306 times.)
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quaz0r
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2015, 03:49:39 PM »

of course if you actually watched the >10 hours of video i posted, or consulted the endless amount of evidence in any other form, or even just used basic common sense, you would realize that the majority of the jet fuel was burned up in the initial explosions of the planes that hit wtc 1 and 2, and either way the jet fuel contained by those planes would not come anywhere remotely close to containing enough volume to affect the entirety of the buildings, much less somehow magically melt all the structural steel from the top all the way to the ground, much less account for the fact that both towers AND wtc7, which was not hit by an airplane, "collapsed" into their own footprint in the same exact manner at the acceleration of gravity.  also that is an interesting picture you posted.  it looks like the entirety of the structure was engulfed in flame.  much the opposite of wtc 1, 2, and 7.  even so, did that structure "collapse" into its own footprint at the acceleration of gravity i wonder?

and sockratease, as fair as you are trying to be, lets be *actually* fair, and acknowledge that there exists no "debunking" material that *actually* addresses anywhere close to the majority of evidence and scientific facts pointed out by the >2300 architects and engineers and others who have tirelessly worked to compile the endless amount of facts and science relevant to this case.  for example, there are very excellent articles on the architects and engineers website that highlight the ridiculous content of the popular mechanics "debunking" article.  if you actually look at any of this "debunking" material, it is entirely devoid of real science and factual evidence.

every single piece of trash promulgated by the "debunking" crowd has been picked apart piece by piece at length by real experts, so to suggest that there is an equal amount of data going either way is far from an accurate depiction of reality.

Quote from: sockratease
Let's be fair - most of us are working adults

And yes, let us be actually fair here - what kind of statement is this exactly?  most of us are working adults so we cant be bothered by science and reality?  and people who do bother to talk about science and reality are...something other than working adults?  the retarded or infirm i take it?  a most puzzling and most troubling statement.  if your status as a self-reliant adult precludes you from engaging in discussions of matters of fact and reality, please, by all means, do not participate.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 04:32:55 PM by quaz0r » Logged
0Encrypted0
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2015, 06:02:21 PM »

Let's be fair - most of us are working adults and even one hour of video is a lot to ask somebody to sit through in order to discuss a topic that has been beaten to death for 14 years! 

@quaz0r
Please try not to quote people out of context.
The point was about allocation of time.

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quaz0r
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2015, 07:26:15 PM »

the point was most certainly not just about allocation of time.  the following statement would make perfect sense on its own:

Quote from: sockratease
one hour of video is a lot to ask somebody to sit through

instead it was qualified with this:

Quote from: sockratease
Let's be fair - most of us are working adults

if someone said "hey, i like fried chicken," and someone responded with "Let's be fair - most of us are caucasian adults and i dont like fried chicken," that would be a far different statement than simply "i dont like fried chicken."  and the point most certainly would not just be about not liking fried chicken.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 08:17:11 PM by quaz0r » Logged
Sockratease
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2015, 10:30:21 PM »

@quaz0r
Please try not to quote people out of context.
The point was about allocation of time.

the point was most certainly not just about allocation of time.  the following statement would make perfect sense on its own:

instead it was qualified with this:

if someone said "hey, i like fried chicken," and someone responded with "Let's be fair - most of us are caucasian adults and i dont like fried chicken," that would be a far different statement than simply "i dont like fried chicken."  and the point most certainly would not just be about not liking fried chicken.

Feel free to take sentence fragments out of context and invent your own fictitious motivations for them all you like.

It just makes you look bad.

Of course it was about having enough time to sit through 9 hours of video!

Not only that, it was pointing out that as a working adult, I have other responsibilities which preclude allocating that much time to something which I have already researched in the hopes of discovering a sentence or two I have not already heard - but the most important point was totally lost on you, so here it is again in all it's original and unedited glory:

Let's be fair - most of us are working adults and even one hour of video is a lot to ask somebody to sit through in order to discuss a topic that has been beaten to death for 14 years!  

As for my opinions on this topic, I feel much is left unanswered and we will never know the whole truth in our lifetimes.

But there is enough evidence on both sides of this discussion to prevent any firm conclusions being drawn...

Sorry if you are just young and all this is new to you, but I have been through it all over a decade ago - I'm actually shocked you didn't bring up all the questionable data around the supposed plane that hit the Pentagon!  And the "us" comment was referring to the fact that it was another member who first complained about the fact that the many hours of video are not helpful - and in fact it works against the possibility of getting others interested in seeing what may be contained therein.

The main justification for my indifference is the indisputable fact that, as I clearly said, "there is enough evidence on both sides of this discussion to prevent any firm conclusions being drawn" which clearly shows that I am not dismissing the possibility it was a hoax, but neither do I dispute that it may well be what "they" say it was.

Due to the stupid long wait times for classified data being released to the public, I reiterate my position that I find the discussion to be pointless since it will never be resolved in our lifetimes!  There were others, including moderators in our private moderators forum, who wanted this topic removed - and it was me who stood up for your right to discuss it.  Do not make me regret that decision with personal attacks which are obviously contrived and clearly without merit.  If this topic degrades into insults and arguing rather than discussion, it will be locked, and possibly removed.  police

And don't you dare accuse me of not caring about science - I happen to be a scientist and find that to be a totally groundless and childish insult  (if you can't dispute the message, attack the messenger!).  Accepting that an area of research will lead nowhere regardless of how many hours of youtube videos one watches is a valid conclusion.  Possibly the only valid conclusion possible on this subject.

Anything else is idle speculation, which you are welcome to indulge in to your heart's content.  But do not ever place your fantasy ideas about other people's motivations on such a high pedestal that you are willing to proclaim them as fact.  



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