Logo by Trifox - Contribute your own Logo!

END OF AN ERA, FRACTALFORUMS.COM IS CONTINUED ON FRACTALFORUMS.ORG

it was a great time but no longer maintainable by c.Kleinhuis contact him for any data retrieval,
thanks and see you perhaps in 10 years again

this forum will stay online for reference
News: Follow us on Twitter
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. December 15, 2019, 09:00:36 AM


Login with username, password and session length


The All New FractalForums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Share this topic on DiggShare this topic on FacebookShare this topic on GoogleShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on StumbleUponShare this topic on Twitter
Author Topic: Chaoscope Animation  (Read 3083 times)
Description: It's Hoopy!
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Sockratease
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 3181



« on: May 15, 2008, 12:17:37 PM »

I finally got around to playing with Anim4Chaoscope!

It's a program available on the Chaoscope webpage ( http://www.chaoscope.org ) and calculates a pile of csproj files from a start and end file!  These can then be rendered in "Batch Processing Mode" and compiled into animation.

I took one of my Favorite Chaoscope images, a Julia set, and tested the software by just converting it to a ball (use it as the start, then set all values to zero as the end).  Then reversed the video and looped it 3 times like I usually do with hosted animation.

The flash of a different ball was a mistake.  I just didn't have time to edit it out - gotta go earn a living!

Here is the end result:


<a href="http://i106.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/hoopy-1.flv" target="_blank">http://i106.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/hoopy-1.flv</a>


Code:
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/?action=view&current=hoopy-1.flv




OK, so it needs work.  But I never used this program for animation (except for my avatar, but that was compiled by hand!).

Still...

It has a lot of potential!  The only drawback is the render time coupled with chaoscope's tendency to need "gamma" adjustments as values change (which can only be altered linearly from start to end file as this is set up)  (but it could be used for making a series of folders - each acting as a keyframe, then compiling later if one was really ambitious!).

« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 12:26:11 PM by Sockratease » Logged

Life is complex - It has real and imaginary components.

The All New Fractal Forums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!
lycium
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1158



WWW
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 12:42:10 PM »

render time? these days you can go to any shopping centre and for very little money buy a gpu that can render quaternion julias in realtime: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/svn/kcrane/web/project_qjulia.html
Logged

Sockratease
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 3181



« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 01:25:18 PM »

render time? these days you can go to any shopping centre and for very little money buy a gpu that can render quaternion julias in realtime: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/svn/kcrane/web/project_qjulia.html

Sorry, no money!

And no idea what a GPU is.

And no clue what to do with files that are just Binaries.

An no real motivation to learn just now as I am teaching myself a programming language and have been away from programming for over 20 years so I have as much to Unlearn as I have to Learn!

Maybe someday....



EDIT:  OK had a closer look and found the real executable file.  I'll peek at it after employment!

But pages like that with all those undefined acronyms are written for too narrow an audience to be of any use.

Pretty pictures, though.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 05:44:08 PM by Sockratease » Logged

Life is complex - It has real and imaginary components.

The All New Fractal Forums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!
MattSchultz
Guest
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008, 08:18:36 PM »

Impressive!

GPU = Graphics Processing Unit (similar to CPU = Central Processing Unit) = A videocard

Since you are viewing this forum in the first place, you already have one.

That said there are many GPU's that have much more powerful chipsets. Currently, they are used mostly for gaming, but they have gotten so powerful recently that there has been work done to port applications to use them as their primary processing engine. A GPU is basically just a really, really fat floating point processor, with an amazingly fast memory bus (and many modern high-end video cards feature 2gb+ of very fast memory), which, in fact, is perfect for rendering fractal images, as this is exactly what they do. While a CPU may be faster overall, since it also features a large instruction set capable of many different tasks, a GPU is specialized, and able to accomplish that task better.

I distinctly remember an argument I had several years ago on a forum (and I think Fredrick was there) regarding trying to port part of the Ultrafractal rendering engine to the NVidia instruction set, which, at the time was not really ready for this application, and hadn't developed far enough for this purpose. Those were still the days of the ATI bus, which did not suit this application well. In those days the only way to directly 'access' the GPU was through OpenGL, which was agreed to be totally inappropriate for this work. But today, we have PCIExpress video cards (if you bought your computer in the last 2 years you have one) and NVidia has released their chip's instruction set in a similar fashion to Intel's developer's manual, and have also released a C compiler specifically for this purpose. I believe it is time for the videocard to rise as a major auxiliary processor.

Also, modern video processors like intel's Telsa and Toshiba's Cell have appeared on the scene, wielding excessive clock speeds and insane memory bus/cache setups. There is no denying that this setup owns when it comes to rendering fractals.
Logged
Sockratease
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 3181



« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008, 10:42:57 PM »

GPU = Graphics Processing Unit (similar to CPU = Central Processing Unit) = A videocard

I suspected as much!  But all too often, when I guess what people mean by undefined acronyms, I guess wrong.  It reached a point where I get all Haughty, Pompous, and Disdainful when I see So-Called Scholarly Documents that flaunt the basic most rule of using acronyms correctly!  (You are supposed to use the full term Once before resorting to the acronym!).

I was online for YEARS before I knew what LOL meant!

I just adopted the attitude that if they can't be bothered to explain what they are saying properly, I was done wasting time trying to figure it out!

Computer programming information is the worst offender of all for this,  it makes learning on your own nearly impossible.

So I get all Judgmental and condemning.

It's Fun!

And it may teach people how to write!!!

And - Thanks also for the comment on the animation!  I'm re-rendering it with slightly different settings to make it more visually interesting for more of the animation.  It has lots of room for improvement...  this was just my first try!

Logged

Life is complex - It has real and imaginary components.

The All New Fractal Forums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!
cKleinhuis
Administrator
Fractal Senior
*******
Posts: 7044


formerly known as 'Trifox'


WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008, 02:33:49 AM »

hey sock, believe me, it is a really pretty animation you have there, and believe me also, that quaternion rendering on those GPU thingies works nearly only for those z 2+c mandelbrot like fractals where the so called distance estimator can be used, it is nearly impossible to do a nice quaternion rendering of a newton fractal or likewise anyhow ... or any other fractal type, ifs 3d fractals, define a surface, but it is really really hard to determine WHAT surface they actually define ...  sad

btw. did i mention that your animation starts out like a dna string ?  police
Logged

---

divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
lycium
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1158



WWW
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 09:16:02 AM »

quaternion rendering on those GPU thingies works nearly only for those z 2+c mandelbrot like fractals
quaternions aren't the only way to get 3d fractals, on the cpu or gpu. a little bit of creativity goes a long way (hey you're in the demoscene, you should know better! there have been class demos in the 90s with ifs fractals in them).

but yes, making 3d fractals is difficult, and rendering them efficiently is also not easy!
Logged

cKleinhuis
Administrator
Fractal Senior
*******
Posts: 7044


formerly known as 'Trifox'


WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 11:00:30 AM »

hey lyc, for sure, but i wanted to point out especially the quaternion thing because sock did render such a thing,

and my favorite 3d fractals are for sure lsystems for trees and plants ...

 kiss
Logged

---

divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
Sockratease
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 3181



« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 11:53:43 AM »

Actually I am interested in what is meant by "Real Time" in rendering speed!

How does it compare to Imaginary Time, or Unreal Time?  Or even Surreal Time?

These "Julia" Quaternions take a Long time to render in Chaoscope, but it seems real to me (They render faster on the better computer, even if nowhere near the speed of most 2D Fractals in other generators).

I managed to trade some comic books for a macbook recently, and it's idea of real time is Much faster than a comparable PC.  I mean - it sucks my 1 GB USB Drive dry amazingly fast when the windows systems take 5 or 6 times longer.  Sometimes more.

The OS is annoying to learn, and the available software is quite limited, but the operating speed is impressive.

But I have yet to see why people swear by one system over the other...  They both have their problems.  Neither is really anything special!  (I miss DOS...)
Logged

Life is complex - It has real and imaginary components.

The All New Fractal Forums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!
cKleinhuis
Administrator
Fractal Senior
*******
Posts: 7044


formerly known as 'Trifox'


WWW
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 12:29:22 PM »

hui, what a post cheesy

Actually I am interested in what is meant by "Real Time" in rendering speed!

How does it compare to Imaginary Time, or Unreal Time?  Or even Surreal Time?

when computer guys talk about realtime they mean the result of the calculation is done in under 1/50 seconds cheesy

when you watch an animation, it is also realtime - the decoding of the video - but it is not calculating the contents
of the video, if you have a rotating box on your screen it is common to say this box rotates in real-time, if you have a
move of a rotating box, it is NOT called this is realtime,

imaginary time ? never heard of it, unreal time, never heard of it .... surreal time, never heard of it  evil evil

Quote
These "Julia" Quaternions take a Long time to render in Chaoscope, but it seems real to me (They render faster on the better computer, even if nowhere near the speed of most 2D Fractals in other generators).

yes, but if you say it takes long, it is NOT realtime, you have to spell it as a single word, realtime, not real time ....

but those gpu gfx cards have a immense amount of parallel working processors ( up to 256 by now i think )
this means, each pixel in the image has its 'own' processor and they all share the same data, the main benefit is that
they work only on a very restricted memory area where no other processes interfere, e.g. hard disk access or something other
which slows down the memory access from the cpu


Quote
I managed to trade some comic books for a macbook recently, and it's idea of real time is Much faster than a comparable PC.  I mean - it sucks my 1 GB USB Drive dry amazingly fast when the windows systems take 5 or 6 times longer.  Sometimes more.

that is a good and fair trade cheesy comic books for a macbook, lol
 alien

Quote
The OS is annoying to learn, and the available software is quite limited, but the operating speed is impressive.

But I have yet to see why people swear by one system over the other...  They both have their problems.  Neither is really anything special!  (I miss DOS...)

NEVER NEVER NEVER say that again please ! i think you mean MS-DOS, DOS simply means DiskOperatingSystem ...
this system was horrible ... better say linux, the shell there is easy to use and assists you in finding files and
navigating through the system the best msdos command was for sure: "cd.." but under linux you have the tab key
like now in the winxp shell they have finally managed the filename completion through the tab ....but msdos had more
restrictions, remember the 640k border ?

 police police police
Logged

---

divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
lycium
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1158



WWW
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 01:30:59 PM »

Actually I am interested in what is meant by "Real Time" in rendering speed!

it means the results are computed as you view them; cf. offline rendering, where you render the frames before playback.

I managed to trade some comic books for a macbook recently, and it's idea of real time is Much faster than a comparable PC.  I mean - it sucks my 1 GB USB Drive dry amazingly fast when the windows systems take 5 or 6 times longer.  Sometimes more.

by that reasoning, i should never drive a car any other colour than red, because i once drove a red car and all the other cars since then (all colours other than red) weren't as fast.

more directly, an unqualified comparison between a single apple and a single pear isn't enough to make any useful inferences; pcs are generally faster than macs (google hackintosh).
Logged

Sockratease
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 3181



« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 06:03:51 PM »

I managed to trade some comic books for a macbook recently, and it's idea of real time is Much faster than a comparable PC.  I mean - it sucks my 1 GB USB Drive dry amazingly fast when the windows systems take 5 or 6 times longer.  Sometimes more.

by that reasoning, i should never drive a car any other colour than red, because i once drove a red car and all the other cars since then (all colours other than red) weren't as fast.

more directly, an unqualified comparison between a single apple and a single pear isn't enough to make any useful inferences; pcs are generally faster than macs (google hackintosh).


I did state "comparable" pc vs mac.  I was in a store where my comic book collecting friend is a manager and did a straight comparison on the same usb drive with the same data - the computers were said to be comparable, but such things are not quite clear to me, I admit.  Still - the mac did out perform the pc in this regard, and a few others. So either the computers were not comparable after all, or it really does work faster...  Another Mystery!

I just wish there was a way to shut up that DANG opening chime it makes...   I leave it on eternal stand-by so I'll never have to hear that sound!  At least windows allows altering that.  I have no clue why mac thinks people will like it, or not be annoyed it!

And about DOS...

Oops.  I knew better...

See what happens when people use acronyms!  I should have said "I miss my old TI-90 Computer"

I just liked the simplicity and structure of programming.  I can't easily adjust to this new way of doing things!  I can adjust, but not easily.

I'm still used to being able to view all my source code in one place!  These new ways have snippets of code everywhere and spread out!

It may be a superior system for functionality, but I find it harder to debug. 

I'm Old, and stuck in my ways.  Trying to embrace these new stuffs...  but reluctantly!

Logged

Life is complex - It has real and imaginary components.

The All New Fractal Forums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Very Basic Color Maps for Chaoscope Programming Sockratease 4 2823 Last post December 05, 2006, 08:04:14 PM
by GFWorld
Chaoscope Animation - Big gif file. Movies Showcase (Rate My Movie) Sockratease 0 1034 Last post December 14, 2006, 12:49:41 PM
by Sockratease
Mutatorkammer meets Chaoscope meets Chaos Pro! (and More!) Movies Showcase (Rate My Movie) Sockratease 0 1131 Last post May 19, 2007, 03:37:53 PM
by Sockratease
Chaoscope 14 Chaoscope Gallery mario837 0 422 Last post January 06, 2011, 06:42:31 PM
by mario837
Anyone Know What Happened To Chaoscope? Chaoscope « 1 2 » Sockratease 17 3253 Last post September 20, 2013, 01:42:02 AM
by mclarekin

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Page created in 0.196 seconds with 27 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.012s, 2q)