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Author Topic: Differences between Mandlebulber and mandebulb3D  (Read 1157 times)
Description: Differences between Mandlebulber and mandebulb3D
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Minataz
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« on: January 15, 2017, 11:49:21 PM »

What are the main differences? Advantages/disadvantages for both? What should they be used for?
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1Bryan1
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 11:04:56 AM »

That is  a wide and deep subject.
You'll get different answers from different people.

You need to narrow the field a bit.

For instance
- what do you want from a 3D fractal generation tool?
- what would make you choose between two 3D fractal generation tools?
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 11:53:07 AM »

the main difference today is that the one is no longer developed(mb3d) while the other is extending its dev team(mandelbulber)
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mclarekin
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 12:53:57 AM »

M3D has  plenty of tutorials to get you started, and a lot of users that can help answer questions.

M3D has a vast amount of formulas and transforms to choose from (unfortunately Mandelbulber has only got a lazy unskilled  apprentice junior fractal coder working on the project, the senior fractal coder position is still vacant grin)

The question is complex, but my advice for a beginner would be use M3D.  However for  video animation I would probably use Mandelbulber.

And eventually try all the 3D fractal programs.

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taurus
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 02:20:03 PM »

From my POV - as one of very few using both programs - the following:

m3d has a "navigator", that's capable not only to navigate. It is also used as real time tweak tool (all formula params in all slots and many more can be manipulated with real time response). Mandelbulber has nothing similar.
IMHO this is the main reason for the popularity of m3d.
Further pros of m3d:
optimized quasi monte carlo renderer for hi quality renders with aa, realistic dof including depth Bokeh. Additionally mc renders can be interrupted, saved and loaded for later continuing.
Mandelbulbers mc rendering is unbearably slow with only a fraction of functionality.
m3d has a very fast volumetric light. Mandelbulber's vol light is very slow and meanwhile crippled in quality control. Dunno really when, but somewhere in v1 Buddhi removed the quality control value of vol light.
m3d has a direct mesh generation. don't use it for now, as for me 3d printing does not match the possible detail.

The main drawback of m3d: 32 bit app and therefor limited image size. The Big render module is only a weak compensation.

Pros of Mandelbulber:
Better quality in standard renderer even with ssao and faster rendering in single formula fractals. Map based ao that gives very good results at the cost of far slower rendering. Still it is faster, than any monte carlo renderer.
Better keyframe animation module with different interpolation modes, that all meet the exact state of keyframes. The quadratic bezier of m3d never reaches the keyframes exactly, which makes animations to some sort of lottery. Linear interpolation is angular and no alternative in most cases.
Additionally I use the keyframe animation in mandelbulber as half automated parameter search. With the know how, you can save the parameters of any frame calculated in your animation.

Theese are the points, that come to my mind for now. It's my observation as a user with almost no clou about the algorithms used.
My fave is still Mandelbulber especially when it comes to animations. I use m3d for some special hybrid still frames and sometimes for the mc renderer.
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neosettler
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 03:23:31 AM »

Quote
M3D has a vast amount of formulas and transforms to choose from (unfortunately Mandelbulber has only got a lazy unskilled  apprentice junior fractal coder working on the project, the senior fractal coder position is still vacant grin)

I'm very perplex about this quote. My na´ve understating is that:

M3D seems to render its algorithms in software (CPU) while MandelBulber uses the GPU
M3D seems to produce infinite details while Mandelbulber seems to have a finite amount of iterations/depth due to GLSL limitations

Could anyone confirm this?

Personally, with all the examples that I have come across, M3D seems to be light years ahead of any other fractal generators in term of quality. Not just with the render quality but especially, with the level of details it is able to generate.

The major drawback of M3D, in my opinion, is that M3D is written in Delphi while Mandelbulber use C++ and GLSL.

As a developer, Iĺd be interested to know if Mandelbulber framework could be brought to M3D quality by using M3D/better formulas? If yes, I vote to push M3D awesomeness development to C++/GLSL somehow.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 03:55:00 AM by neosettler » Logged
mclarekin
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 04:31:52 AM »

Hi Neosettler

M3D uses CPU
MandelbulberV2   uses CPU, and dev version V2.12 also has an openCL GPU option.  (old Mandelbulber V1.21 also has openCL option but is limited to single precision floating point)

When both programs are using CPU double  precision floating point  then the level of detail I would think should be the same , but I am not certain.

Many of the formulas in MandelbulberV2 have the same or similar maths to  M3D, so any difference would have to be in the engine
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neosettler
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 05:10:43 PM »

Quote
so any difference would have to be in the engine

From my observation on both technologies, with Mandelbulber you can usually tell what kind of formulas it is being used. On the other hand, M3D succeeds in spiting images that seems to be out of this world and let you wonder, how the hell they came up with this. This is the magic I'm trying to figure out, is it engine related, formulas related or user related?
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mclarekin
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2017, 01:52:50 AM »

Quote
is it engine related, formulas related or user related?

Engine. I do not know enough about this aspect to comment.

Formulas. M3D has a larger amount of formulas to choose from and lots of example settings on the Internet.

Users.  There are not many Mandlebulber users compared to M3D and a lot of MandelbulberV2 functions have only been implemented in the last two years.  The gallery at FF is full of my work which  is mainly a record of the formulas being implemented ( i am an explorer not an artist).  For artistic use of the program look for the work by user Taurus.  With M3D there are a lot of artistic users.
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taurus
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 09:59:38 PM »

For artistic use of the program look for the work by user Taurus.
Thanks for the laud mclarekin, but when I look at the facebook group, the number of artistic users is slowly but steadily increasing.
@neosettler m3d has a leading edge with formulas and amount of users. The cpu engines are (IMHO) pretty equal, while m3d provides more options and mandelbulber has the better standard quality and is 64bit (m3d is limited to 32bit).
within the formula base m3d has loads of not necessarily fractal related ones, like height maps in several versions, pattern-duplication of objects and many diFS. Additionally many formulas in m3d provide more options to choose from. Best example is the lately (Dec 2016) developed Kleinian Fractal by Jos Leys and knighty. While the implementation in Bulber is close to the initial release (and was published half a year after m3d version), Luca (DarkBeam) added several options like sphere inversion and several more, that allow much more variations in form and appearance.
While the developer team of mandelbulber is trying to get equal in functionality, thargor (m3d Development) had the time, to pay attenion in detail improvements, like a mutator and an effective smoothing of 3d mesh export.
Regarding the many differences between both programs it gets more and more a comparison between apples and oranges. Mandelbulber is more than ever the best choice for animations, m3d is the best for trying the latest geeks and a more 3d-modeling feeling.
Assuming valera_rozuvan's remake of m3d in a modern codebase will never come (nobody knows yet), mandelbulber is a good guess in the middle to long term, because m3d has not much space left, for improvements.
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