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Author Topic: Rolling around a different axis...  (Read 2508 times)
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Sockratease
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Posts: 3181



« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2011, 10:05:21 PM »

Hi folks,

well I just want to add my two pence worth on this.

I rarely used the direction arrows on the main window at first as (d'oh! it took me days to discover) you don't instantly lose what you have into a 'sunset' or something as soon as you press them - you have to re-render again - which was confusing as the navi window was 'instant' - even if it is not always clear where you are going. [[I wonder if a simple wireframe-style thing might help to see where we are and it would use less processor power and be 'instant' too?]].

If a wireframe were easy, I'd have my obj file export!   bubble gum  Try the "calc" button for a quick and blocky render in the main window.

I never used the arrow buttons in the main window much either, until I set it to 90 degrees!  Now I use it all the time   afro

I very often find something that needs exactly 90 degrees rotation, and it saves having to use the navigator (where I keep the rotation arrows at a much lower value).

The navigator appearance issue really is all down to lighting and far-plane values most of the time  (as always - yes, there are exceptions).  Don't forget that there's a new "save this lighting" button in the navigator panel near the other light control.  It allows you to copy he light set to memory, and paste it into the presets in the main lighting window.

It will need adjustment, but is a welcome starting point.

Hope that helps.
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cytotox
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2011, 10:38:41 AM »

... the closer in I go with Walking, it comes back at me as if I am pressing the lower button. Sometimes I cannot pull out again at all ...

... sometimes the Navi bears NO resemblence whatsoever to whatever is in the Main window ...

I have been using the Navigator a lot; there are a few simple tricks to use it efficiently.

If - after importing the parameters to the Navigator window by pressing the "Parameter" button - the Navigator does not reflect what has been calculated in the main window, click on the downward button in the Nav window (showing the hint "open/close parameter pane" when hovering with the mouse) to access the Navigator's hidden, additional functionalities and check the box "Fixed zoom and steps". Now, when importing the parameters from the main window, the calculated images should be more or less identical (apart from color and lighting effects). The Nav's behaviour, as far as I know, is caused by an in-built auto pilot that tries to avoid settings which lead to cutting of parts of the fractal object that's being displayed, and it seems to try to do that by zooming in to the objects surface until all the parts that might have been cut by the viewplane come to lie outside (i.e., to the left, right, top or bottom) of the viewplane.

So, I usually keep the "Fixed zoom and steps" box checked when exploring (and stepping through) a fractal. For this purpose, I use the walking and sliding buttons (sometimes adjusting the numbers in the "step" window" to be able to move faster or more cautiously) in conjunction with the little arrow keys that appear beside the zoom factor when "Fixed zoom and steps" is active. However, when I finally want to zoom in somewhere and I do not want the viewplane to cut through any part of the fractal, I have to uncheck this box, of course.

But first, in order to prevent a sudden 'jump' in the image due to the 'autopilot' taking over (after unchecking, when resuming sliding and walking using either the mousewheel or the buttons), I use the zoom arrows to move close to the surface of the fractal object until I think that no parts of the fractal are cut by the viewplane. Then, I export the parameters to the main view ("View to main"; you do not have to press the "Calculate 3D" button yet) just in case I guessed wrong, and only after this, I uncheck the "Fixed zoom and steps" box.

Now, you should be able to navigate freely and you might try to find out how much you can step back now from the surface of the fractal before you hit a fractal 'wall' with your back  Azn

With this strategy, you can even get inside the tuber- or bulb-like features of some fractals (e.g. http://www.fractalforums.com/gallery/deep-connections/, original parameters from HalTenny, see images and the par file for the indicated tuber's interior below); in order to get out again, however, you have to use the stepping-through possibilities of the "Fixed zoom and steps" option (or, more cumbersome, the cutting options in the main menu).

PS. Hitting a 'wall' when trying to move forward ("Fixed zoom and steps" unchecked) can also occur head banging wall; this happens when the Navigator's 'autopilot' (distance estimator) increases the zoom factor (in order to avoid cutting the fractal) and the value approaches a certain limit. This limit seems to be defined by the number in the input box beside the "Min distance" button and can be extended as desired by entering increasingly smaller values (e.g. 0.000001).


PPS.
... The navigator appearance issue really is all down to lighting and far-plane values most of the time  ...

Yes, don't forget to increase the value in the "Far plane" box when the background starts to become visible and the fractal seems to end in front of you ... it's never a good sign when the light at the end of the tunnel is approaching you ...  evil scared white

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
P.....9/...d0...w....2....EwUsfyO4p9.DHhtn68bZ0kt7LV28/y.yP0.yHiDdq3.Fwr.HXjtw0k
................................GUj0i/6hH/2........Y./..................y.2.....
................/M.//....6.LT...l/....E2IaU7vEp.W7aodSjD/..........c./...w1.BnAH
z.kPGAkC/.../2......................BnAnAnAn..2...........E......y1...sD...../..
.w1...GEEtvgDb4L/w9VqwdoNQbwyCrBI3oNATgj7pDEJqYEivfDBERWhfqzywyrBpvcg7jjfMqbfUTz
Zvnxi19w.XWvyGWlhUCAT3kj......YeO.............kD.2....sD..kz....................
...........2./...............UTRd4.YqZO.cQLe/.wRd4.KsZO.kXLe/UMSd4..............
................yzzzzzzzz1.U.g5......Y1...kA....O2.........F....8/...I2....UJpJ4
5w/U.ydelyjeYFnz....z1....6.1c...1Ak.YLRxBJNJI.En7oZjIk.0.2...........k.8.kXWF1.
QvM93P58iz9GMmnWK2zwz0........../6U0.wzzz1................................E.0c..
zzzz.................................2U.8.kzzzD.................................
/6U0.wzzz1....................................uBZ.EHVM/.lTHoTu2.cxo7.2MNPe9x.g5P
D/koit6Ul/kF.V1.fx5crI0.B3W3.MtTUSH7.oI6K.Uaz/uBZ.EHVM/..z5crI0.B3W3.oxTUSH7.oI6
K.ktz/uBZ.EHVM/....crI0.zzFoTu2.yzngi84.xzZX.45.................................
E....A....k/....2....A....EEh3aSdtqNU6oPs/.IjR5.......................k/9.......
...................wz0..........aNaNaNaNiz1.....................................
................................................................................
.....................2.....3....0....wpIdtKNExqRm...............................
..............................zD........kz1.....................................
................................................................................
................................m....M....k.....4x4PYZaPb/GGiF56ExqR............
..........U0.U............................2........7.1.........E................
................................................................................
............................................}


* Deep connections by HalTenny.jpg (46.16 KB, 600x338 - viewed 205 times.)

* in-bulb zoom.jpg (37.62 KB, 600x338 - viewed 194 times.)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 02:09:17 PM by cytotox » Logged
kameelian
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2011, 08:19:39 PM »

Sockratease,

I guess 'If a wireframe were easy', someone far brighter than me wudda come up with it and it would be already implemented (!)
Curiously tho, when I go into the navi, my fans kick in and my cpu goes to 100% for a brief moment - so I don't really understand how is uses less processor. (not really looking for an answer).

Cytotox,
Thanks for the info. It would never occur to tick 'fixed zoom and steps' before pressing parameter button. Subtle differences may make all the difference. Next time I get this issue, I shall try it out - as well as your zoom figures and HalTenny parameters. thanks

kam
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Sockratease
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2011, 11:53:46 PM »

Sockratease,

I guess 'If a wireframe were easy', someone far brighter than me wudda come up with it and it would be already implemented (!)
Curiously tho, when I go into the navi, my fans kick in and my cpu goes to 100% for a brief moment - so I don't really understand how is uses less processor. (not really looking for an answer).

I know you weren't looking for an answer, but my immediate reaction was that a faster renderer may use more processor power, not less - but M3D always maxes out the processor, so I dunno...   evil
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lenord
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No Matter where you go there you are


« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2011, 12:19:26 AM »

Opening the Nav actually uses more power because it's another window open and a window that is rendering also, if you open the Nav panel while calculations are still running for the main window for image/shadows whatever now you have 2 renders running. The Nav panel just has faster less accurate resolution is all, as far as CPU usage goes that's a function of the internal settings. When MB3D opens one of the first things it does is check it's environment, if you're running a single/dual core/quad core processor whatever the case may be, then the program sets the CPU Affinity(all cores) for maximum processing power to be allotted to MB3D unless you select otherwise. If you are just running MB3d, use all cores it's faster, if you are rendering in MB3D and want to do other stuff to you need to set the threadcount to use less CPU power for MB3d or everything else is stuck in the Mud.
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Sfumato
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 02:42:07 PM »

Excuse me for a little bit off-topic, but having studied the posts attentively I still can't rotate an object around it's center without 'sliding off' from it. In case I need a keyframe I can fix it's position roughly manually but when the frames within the two 'centered' keyframes are rendered the object still moves away and then comes back to the center of the screen, moving along an arc.
Is it really impossible to place the object in the center of the scene so that one shouldn't have adjust every frame manually? Or is there some other way out (that should be I guess!) - ?
Thank You,
Sumato.
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Sockratease
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 06:02:00 PM »

Are you using linear interpolation?

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Sfumato
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2011, 06:34:41 AM »

Sorry, Sockratease, I haven't  find interpolation settings option in M3D and don't know what interpolation is used huh?
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Sockratease
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2011, 12:18:18 PM »

Sorry, Sockratease, I haven't  find interpolation settings option in M3D and don't know what interpolation is used huh?

Animation defaults to Bezier, but in the case you describe you want linear interpolation  (bezier computes smoother curves between keyframes, and can miss exact keyframes in the name of a smooth curve).

Here:

« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 01:11:36 PM by Sockratease, Reason: Speelinf Eroorz » Logged

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Sfumato
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2011, 03:31:24 PM »

Thank You, Sockratease, it seems to work really!
With kindest regards,
Have a lovely weekend,
Sfumato.
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