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Author Topic: Perspectives for Mandelbulb3D version 2  (Read 1214 times)
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Alef
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« on: September 13, 2017, 03:46:06 PM »

These are just my toughts. Nothing more.
Really there is not mutch to improve, Mandelbulb3D is classics. Well, it could be but that would require large effors, dedication and knowledge about 3D rendering what I would not expect from curent state. If there will be a version 2 then it must have something new;)

So I think:
1.
Mandelbulb3D can generate 2D fractals but as side effect. Maybe there could be a "Calculate 2D" button. Not shure does it will be very usefull. But it is fun and it alredy it does it just without button.

2. If you do 2D you notice that in 2D colours are different than in cutouts. In Chaos Pro there is no hard coded cutouts so I made them in formulas as autobailout - if Cutout = TRUE. Then it is just like normal surfaces and cutouts looks just like that surface would look in 2D.
Cutouts that don't look as a cutouts but normal surfaces? Not very usefull, too. Or maybe not if fractal is cut becouse it goes throught screen

3. More colours methods or orbit traps shapes? Orbit traps shapes and moved trap center works for all colour formulas including exponent smothing and lyapunov. The most different and smooth could be wave trichrome (modified orbit counting of Fractal Explorer)
Code:
wave trichrome Ultra Fractal

float antilightG=1/@lightG ; default @lightG = 1.2
float dataG=@seed ; default @seed= 1

loop:
cabsz = cabs(z) ; complex abs
cnt=cnt+1 ; default @scalarG= 1.2

IF (@colmethod ==0)
dataG =  (dataG + recip(cnt) )/( @scalarG + cabsz*antilightG)

ELSEIF (@colmethod ==1)
dataG =  (dataG )/( @scalarG + cabsz*antilightG)
ENDIF

sumG=sumG + dataG

final:
resultG = abs(sumG)

; on @lightB = 0.25 and @scalarB= 0.25 it can be used as direct, values 0 to ~1
Probably not very usefull, too

All of them could be tested in Chaos Pro. 3D raymarcher + all of the UF database.

4. MutaGen - great stuff.
Maybe with iteration count it could alsou mutate bailout value. And it would be good if one could set mutation range by numbers, say mutate Abox scale from -3 to +3. It's largely a guess. Maybe that will just make it overloaded. But it would be usefull for julia sets becouse all julias are in certain range.
But maybe it's alredy OK.

5.
In Chaos Pro there is something like glitter effect with a random noise applied to light. That must be very easy to implement. It is not something great but maybe adds some effect. In Ultra Fractal I used noise with tanh function makeing it slightly milder
result=abs( tanh(@amount *real(#random)) +result)
That was applied to colours.

Throught sandstone surfaces effect on mandelbulb would be more advanced effect but alsou more coding intensive;) (If I understand correctly that is what "fractal textures" does in Fragmentarium.)

I could be wrong but alsou M3D realy can't produce transcluent (sorry for english) objects. I meant like marble or milky ice on hockey field. This could be a surface effect and not what does a transparency.

Mandelbulb with both transcluency, texture and glitter would be just like legs of human females;) That would be very usefull but would require a lot of coding.

6.
Professional use - need for speed. It don't require so mutch raytracing guality as speed. So Fragmentarium or shadertoys site is better. Well, I think settings in some ini files could make Navigator just like that, more solid render but not being too slow. But single flag in Navigator could do it too.

For me that would be useless but then I could watch some better fractal based images;)


p.s.
Most of that exept advanced 3D stuff I could make easely if I would have delphi. Of corse that would rewuire to look throught all of the code. That would be the hardest part. Strange than none had made their versions.
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1Bryan1
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 07:13:55 AM »

There is a free version of Delphi.
And as for "Strange than none had made their versions" ... thargor6 and I have done just that (mine is thargor6's with a web service wired in for automation)
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DarkBeam
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Fragments of the fractal -like the tip of it


« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 09:43:50 AM »

You can add whatever to MB3D at the cost to lose retro-compatibility  cry
Luca
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No sweat, guardian of wisdom!
Alef
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 12:47:26 PM »

Compatibility is important issue. But they have something {titel } at the end of parameters. Maybe it could be possible to add another {} at the end of parameters and then more and more {}'s. That would look strange. But maybe there could be other tricks, say by sacrifice 6th formula.
1Bryan1:
Didn't know that.
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Alef
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2017, 02:45:23 PM »

Now I think surfaces would be the thing. Say mandelbulb made of paper, sandstone DIFS shapes or 3D flames made of ice. In current state all surfaces is plastics jet with certain parameters other materials could be simulated.
Most of 3D is plastic. All of the popular 3D cartoons hadn't went further than everything plastic.

Transcluency must be related to light reflection from surface to some 0.2 mm deep in material. And the feel of timber or chalk is created by small scale surface texture what often is simulated by small fractal holes.


I don't meant something like M3D A and M3D B but like Mandelbulb3D_darkbeams_experimental_version.exe . And if certain things is good then they could be just copy past into the code of main version. Community around M3d I think is mutch smaller than were for Apophysis so many versions should not be a problem. I think there were more Apophysis developers than 3d formula authors bu I could be wrong.
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thargor6
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2017, 04:20:52 PM »

An alternative way could be to use a feature toggles in the main version. E.g. in the Prefs you may activate "Darkbeams experimental feature pack", or use some plugin mechanism.
From my experience, many users are overwhelmed by maintaining multiple versions. This may also cause conflicts regarding external files like settings or formulas etc.
When everything is in the same *.exe, there would be taken more care, to avoid such conflicts, I think/hope

Cheers!
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Alef
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2017, 04:54:30 PM »

That is what in computer games is called moding.
That could be more usefull for jwildfire, flame fractals have larger community, I think.

Edit: translucent

or is it the opalescence


7. Possibility to move around all of the fractals in DEcombinate mode not just DIFS. That would make all the "ordinary" formulas like DIFS. And would turn Mandelbulb3D closer to fractal 3D CAD software.

DIFS are great in that they can be positioned and could make scenery.

I think that should require pretty simple coding for all the DE combinate by moving coordinate system. But that then must be saved;)

There are some formulas what can do it and there should be a special transformation for it.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 05:28:02 PM by Alef » Logged

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1Bryan1
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 11:56:08 PM »

...
I think that should require pretty simple coding for all the DE combinate by moving coordinate system. But that then must be saved;)
...

Since you state "...require pretty simple coding..." , you must be saying "I can do this myself".

All you need to do is pick up the latest source from Git and do the coding yourself.
I look forward to seeing your 'mod' in the near (or far) future.
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Alef
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2017, 04:24:56 PM »

Ha ha ha   tease You 'll need to wayt for a very very long time.
I just read a thread about "stop of development of Mandelbulb3D".
Moding software (mostly games) mostly are developed from the start to be moded.
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1Bryan1
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 06:50:54 AM »

You can 'Mod' Mandelbulb3D.
That is what I did to introduce a external automation interface (so I could  send commands to Mandelbulb3D without needing use the UI).
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Alef
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 04:28:50 PM »

That could require too mutch of skills and additional software. And the execution plan for the mode. But in the interface there are small script button, just shadowed for a now, so giving us a hope;)

I think the best addition could be
http://www.fractalforums.com/3d-fractal-generation/plastic-looks-of-3d-vs-fractals-and-reflections/msg103809/#msg103809
and
http://www.fractalforums.com/chaospro/chaos-pro-inferiority-and-superb-navigation/

The first could be impossible to make with existing M3D raytracing code (as developer not quite understands hardcoded parts http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-3d/active-mb3d-develoment-stopped-from-my-side/ ), the navigation by manualy positioning camera could be possible but it would require a bitt of skills and math.

Quote
That is what I did to introduce a external automation interface (so I could  send commands to Mandelbulb3D without needing use the UI).
That sounds as electrical sheep.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 04:36:00 PM by Alef » Logged

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thargor6
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 07:05:48 PM »

That could require too mutch of skills and additional software. And the execution plan for the mode. But in the interface there are small script button, just shadowed for a now, so giving us a hope;)
My suggestion is to stop talking and to contribute to one of the active projects and become a hero :-) (Talk like this is usually a waste of time as you will face most problems only during development, and most developers do not lack good ideas, but actually implementing the stuff is a whole different business. So, when you are missing a feature, like photorealistic rendering, the reason is probably not, that the developer had "forgotten" to implement it and is now thankful that he can read in a forum about it ;-) )

Peace! afro
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Alef
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 01:47:37 PM »

 grin I think I would concentrate on things I 'm better at. (talking is one of those;))
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