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Author Topic: Old Newbie - Write custom parameter files  (Read 2220 times)
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Holtenwood
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« on: March 21, 2012, 09:44:09 PM »

OK, I have figured out how to load parameter files from other people into Mandelbulb 3D. I have tried a bunch of the existing formulas in various combinations. So I am getting a pretty good idea of how some of the stuff might work.

I am a computer programmer. But I have not done direct machine code since the mid '80's and back then it definitely was not on a PC. I do have an education in math but the last 25 years or so has mainly been in cost and inventory analysis and PLC's - in other words more on the accounting and manufacturing control side rather than the pure math side. I have not done linear programming nor complex calculus since the late '70's.

In short - I am an extreme newbie to PC machine code, byte code or GPL/GPU - though I can usually pick up a new language and set of concepts very quickly.

Can someone point me to resources for figuring out how to write my own parameter files for Mandelbulb 3D? Or give me some hints? Or possibly even take the time to give me some real instruction?

I have looked throughout this forum and all the fractalforums. I have searched the Internet. I note other people are able to do this, so there must be somewhere to learn what code these parameter files are in and how to construct them. But I am at a loss without the basics for what sort of editor to use and what code type to look for on the Internet.

Thanks for any help you can give.

- Timothy

PS: I am attaching one more image using the negative power parameter file Jesse posted for me. This time an "Alternate" combination with OctahedranIFS. Admittedly it does not display true fractal behaviour at close inspection. But I find it rather fascinating nonetheless.  


* mandelbulb_-8p_julia_octahedronIFS.png (161.64 KB, 480x360 - viewed 764 times.)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 10:25:24 PM by Holtenwood » Logged
cKleinhuis
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 09:53:47 PM »

hello and welcome to the forums ... you confuse me ... do you want to create parameter files or new formula files ?!?!?
for you as programmer i suggest you try out fragmentarium a ready made gpu code editor with build in 3d fractal formulas
that can be easily edited, it runs on gpu .... but it might be most fun, you can change code and see the results....

when it comes to writing formula files for m3d, you need to figure out a way like darkbeam did, but in my eyes without tutorial
and help from others nearly impossible, perhaps he points you to the corresponding threads .. .

writing formulas for m3d comes down to compile a c code to assembly language as single obj file ... as far as i know, have never done
it and wont ever do it, i like the easy way, coding for gpu - using fragmentarium - or code for cpu - using ultrafractal skripts ....

so, how may we help you ?
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Jesse
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 10:39:59 PM »

I am a computer programmer. But I have not done direct machine code since the mid '80's and back then it definitely was not on a PC.

Cool, i did Tron on an Atari 400 in machine code those days, clear 8 bit code, i love it.  smiley

Quote
I do have an education in math but the last 25 years or so has mainly been in cost and inventory analysis and PLC's - in other words more on the accounting and manufacturing control side rather than the pure math side. I have not done linear programming nor complex calculus since the late '70's.
In short - I am an extreme newbie to PC machine code, byte code or GPL/GPU - though I can usually pick up a new language and set of concepts very quickly.

Really, i need always some time for it, but what i make i want to do from the bottom, this way it makes sense for me.

Quote
Can someone point me to resources for figuring out how to write my own parameter files for Mandelbulb 3D? Or give me some hints? Or possibly even take the time to give me some real instruction?

In "Parameters" files like *.m3p or the textfiles you have seen, only the values for all the parameters and used formulas are stored, plus formula names.  But not the formulas itself. (just click on Save->"Txt" to copy it to clipboard and insert them as text anywhere)
If you want to make a formula in m3d, you need some more infos that i would provide you to do the machine code for it.

But as cKleinhuis said, it would be much easier to use fragmentarium to implement formulas because you can use some default formulas, change them and recompile them direct online and see the result!

Quote
PS: I am attaching one more image using the negative power parameter file Jesse posted for me. This time an "Alternate" combination with OctahedranIFS. Admittedly it does not display true fractal behaviour at close inspection. But I find it rather fascinating nonetheless.  

Yes, increasing the max-iteration value might bring some more fractal patterns out, made a low value for faster rendering.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 11:40:23 PM by Jesse, Reason: Atari, not Amiga :) » Logged
cKleinhuis
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 11:07:08 PM »

Cool, i did Tron on an Amiga 400 in machine code those days, clear 8 bit code, i love it.  smiley
 


@jesse did i ever mention i created this in 2006 on emulator ?
http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/Brickout

and, sorry, there was just an a4000 and amiga has never been 8 bit, it was true mc68000 16 bit power ... and i know agnus and best of all copper ...
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divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
Jesse
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 11:38:33 PM »


@jesse did i ever mention i created this in 2006 on emulator ?
http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/Brickout

and, sorry, there was just an a4000 and amiga has never been 8 bit, it was true mc68000 16 bit power ... and i know agnus and best of all copper ...


Arghh, yes i meant an Atari 400 of course!

That was definitive 8 bit old school stuff  wink

PS:  Brickout looks not bad, is there some cracked stuff out to download  smiley
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 11:46:17 PM by Jesse » Logged
DarkBeam
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2012, 08:56:29 AM »

@jesse did i ever mention i created this in 2006 on emulator ?
http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/Brickout

Too cool bro!!! champagne toast I was an emu-maniac! wink
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2012, 10:50:52 AM »

Too cool bro!!! champagne toast I was an emu-maniac! wink

i really enjoyed the 8bit coding, but i would never touched that c64 keyboard, because it is horrible ...
the 8 bit assembler coding was so much fun, because the hand optimized stuff you can do is really relaxing,
and as a side note, you now that the game uses a - for me as c64 beginner - quite advanced sprite multiplexer,
theoretical 120 items are moving at the same time ... for the c64 really a bitch to code, but basically the game
was coded surround the multiplexer effect ...

and did i mention that this project is the most complete program i ever released ?
and the mouse cursor uses 12 different colors - hence the cursor is switched off when animating the stones...

hrr, that was pleasure...
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divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
DarkBeam
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Fragments of the fractal -like the tip of it


« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2012, 10:55:59 AM »

Some yrs ago I wrote some cheats for Mame using ROM assembly modifications, there is a modified debug-Mame for this purpose, fantastic to modify games as you want! But I stop hijacking now bubble gum
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Jesse
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2012, 11:13:28 PM »

i really enjoyed the 8bit coding, but i would never touched that c64 keyboard, because it is horrible ...
the 8 bit assembler coding was so much fun, because the hand optimized stuff you can do is really relaxing,
and as a side note, you now that the game uses a - for me as c64 beginner - quite advanced sprite multiplexer,
theoretical 120 items are moving at the same time ... for the c64 really a bitch to code, but basically the game
was coded surround the multiplexer effect ...

and did i mention that this project is the most complete program i ever released ?
and the mouse cursor uses 12 different colors - hence the cursor is switched off when animating the stones...

hrr, that was pleasure...

Have to say big respect for this project, Chris!

The Atari was quite easy to handle compared to the C64, though i did not programmed the C64.  But all i heard about the sprite programming on the C64, it must be definitely more challenging.  Atari had one or two? (to much years ago) sprites going from top to bottom over the screen, just a horizontal offset.
Scrolling was easy on Atari because you could just change the pointer for each screenline to the mem that is shown, my program was really simple but fun too.

Must grab out mame to try it again, maybe i can get some highscore in brickout.  wink
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2012, 11:17:14 PM »

you can as well try to achieve a low-score smiley it is equally hard...if not even more challenging
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divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
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