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Author Topic: Remake of MB3D  (Read 17541 times)
Description: A reboot of the MB3D project
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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2016, 01:54:11 PM »

The Metasurface in AudioMulch
Interesting idea using the mouse to modulate many parameters simultaneously.
<a href="https://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=13800600&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA" target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=13800600&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA</a>
Code:
https://vimeo.com/13800600
Used to adjust audio parameters in this demonstration.

It would be an interesting concept for adjusting many formula parameters at once.


* MetaSurface.png (106.06 KB, 1152x720 - viewed 244 times.)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 09:25:10 AM by 0Encrypted0 » Logged
M Benesi
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« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2016, 06:43:16 PM »

And about the formulas... (very important for the popularity of MB3D)
Luca should have the assembly for all his formulas? so you shouldn't need to translate them from code... I will try to get in contact with him.

   Luca told/led me to use OllyDGB  (Olly Debug) for disassembly/ coding/ reassembly.  Basically you copy / binary paste into OllyDBG to see the code and copy it to notepad, and check it in OllyDBG (or just do it in OllyDBG if it's a small enough segment- but I like writing in notepad more). 

  If I had a decent fraps type of software I'd make a video of it for the community.... but I don't.  Maybe Skype (desktop) with someone who does who will edit out my brain malfunctions... and save them for an outtakes reel.  cheesy

 
  Something I'd like to see implemented is 3d arrays of fractal data stored, with variable resolution depending on local DE.  This would speed up calculation as parts far from the fractal (after first DE is loaded at Viewer position) wouldn't recalculate DE, and would just access the data array for the first lower resolution jumps towards the fractal.

  Not only that, we could apply changes to just certain parts of the fractal without recalculating the whole thing.  3Dickulus and I already implemented a prototype of this in Fragmentarium, but I ran into array size limitations on my 9 year old GPU so stopped work on it (it's still just a function that needs to be recalled for every new calculation, so you run into a LOT of slowdown as you increase the number of transforms applied).

  There aren't array size limitations for the CPU though (well, ones that we'd have to worry about), so being able to mold the fractal on the fly would be cool.

  Here is an old demo that 3Dickulus made of the code (doesn't do much at this point but move around the bulb- never wrote a lot of code to use with it, although some new code that I wrote might work with it well....):

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/mQzi0LuG3yo&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/mQzi0LuG3yo&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>

   Basically, if we could store stuff in an array, we could apply (mathematical) changes to specific parts of the fractal.   
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DsyneGrafix
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« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2016, 10:03:32 PM »

Wonderful News! Don't be put off by the cries for GPU support! If you need volunteers for testing, bugs and the like, post here!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/amandelbulbmaniac/
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« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2016, 11:18:14 PM »

My only humble request would be diffuse map by formula and/or iteration. Perhaps a diffuse map masking feature if that would be easier. Good luck with the project!
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fractalgee
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« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2016, 12:08:50 AM »

Great news!

Would be nice if it could natively run on anything, but that is of course a long goal. But at least make sure the code base makes it easy to port the things that are really platform dependent, then someone else can pick up that part. I think anything in M3DB currently is good, but needs refactoring, so it fits into a modern project with maintainability and testability in mind as part of the design.

This is one really awesome project to take on, respect. May you succeed!
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Lelle
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« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2016, 12:27:11 AM »

This sounds fantastic... And enormously time consuming! The one question I have is if it's possible to make it easily compailable for Windows, Linux and Mac? That would broaden the user base very much and make away with half working wrappers!

Also keep Andreas great mutagen!
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FracZky
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« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2016, 07:10:54 PM »

It is great to see the software is making it's way back from Extinction.
Name suggestion: "Escher Frac Studio 2016"
I hope I can help, and will try where possible...
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knokin
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« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2016, 04:43:19 AM »

Am very grateful to those prepared to spend time doing this.
For the new one, would be nice if the name included reference to the originsl as a tribute to those who gave us what we have had before. Mandelbulb 3d Phoenix perhaps!
Hope the non maths people will be also be remembered as many of us use it for art thesedays. This includes not abbreviating formula names etc, and insuring the 'i' isnt only mathematical in reference.
I am a heavy user of lightmaps and heightmaps. Would love to be able to bring in fully 3d objects to interact with fractals. Also be good if someone can develop a simple way for those ignorant of such things to translate a 3D object into a useful heightmap withiut having to know Blender.
I love the current options for light maps to wrap or not etc. so leave those alone or only add to them.
Sliders instead of setting actual values all the time (unkess you want to) is great in Navigator.  Good to be able to set Far Plane but what about near plane to cut obscuring bits and oieces rather than use Cutting (which can be a challenge if everything is out of alignment. Also like Mutagen.
Also can the current MB3D version remain available into the future to mark those who went before.
Great thanks again. Its a pity the past developers have copped so much flack for all their time spent freely. Hope all can remain positive and supportive this time.

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valera_rozuvan
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« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2016, 10:28:47 PM »

Summary of all feature requests

So far, this discussion is exactly what I wanted it to be! Thank you all who replied. To summarize all of the feature requests, I have created a wishlist. I tried to group features into general areas. You can find the wishlist at Mandelbulb 4D (M4D) must have features list.


Name of the project

For the name of the project I am going to chose Mandelbulb 4D, the abbreviated version being M4D. Thanks to all, who provided their feedback at the New name for remake of MB3D thread. See my comments over there for an explanation of why I chose that name.


Project goal

Also, I have been thinking about what I really want this project to become. So here goes a semi-formal project abstract  smiley

Build an open source, state-of-the-art rendered, fine tuned to produce highly realistic visuals of arbitrary complex fractal 3D worlds. Out of the box, it should be intuitive and easy to use for artists. M4D will be based spiritually on the MB3D project, and, initially, will borrow heavily from the MB3D's custom formulas ecosystem. The "4" in "M4D" stands for the fourth dimension - time. M4D will aim for a very customizable animation creation experience, giving one fine grained control over all dynamic parameters throughout the animation timeline.


Next steps

1. Create a road map.
2. Decide on the minimal set of features for the first release.
3. Setup code repository and project page over at GitHub. [DONE] Available at https://github.com/valera-rozuvan/mandelbulb-4d
4. Start coding.
5. Post development news over here  smiley
6. Release a first prototype to the public.
7. Regroup, and continue with development.



PS: I think this thread can be safely locked. Any new discussions regarding M4D will take place in a separate dedicated sub-forum.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 06:34:44 PM by valera_rozuvan » Logged

schizo
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« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2016, 02:15:07 PM »

Fantastic news that made my day   joy
I also think that it is the best idea to rewrite the whole thing in a compatible manner and using the knowledge about algorithms from Mandelbulb 3D.
Thank you for your initiative. Hope this new baby will evolve and grow.
Good luck on your way M4D  flowers
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cyseal
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« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2016, 04:29:13 PM »

That's awesome!
Will renderer also be changed?
Also, is it posssible to implement Vulcan?
https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Docs
https://github.com/SaschaWillems/Vulkan
https://github.com/LunarG/VulkanSamples
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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM »

Quote from Fractal Lab - sub.blue
Mandelbulb3D a Windows based app with a huge number of formula options and features. It doesn't use the GPU and so is much slower to render but doesn't have the floating point single precision limit of the GPU renderers, which means you can zoom in much deeper.
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Sockratease
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« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2016, 08:10:31 PM »

I made this topic sticky, just so it doesn't get buried.  I may "un-sticky" some older and soon to be obsolete ones later.

While I'm here, I would like to suggest allowing use of ".map" files for gradients!  Then thousands of available files would become compatible and use of old programs like MakeMap would be possible   cheesy

Even  if one needed to import separate files for diffuse and specular colors, it would still open wide the possibilities.

I would think a gradient should be interchangeable, but my programming days are so far behind me that I could not fully understand what is involved.  But it seemed worth mentioning!
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knighty
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« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2016, 11:40:01 PM »

One apreciated feature of MB3D that seem to be forgotten: deferred rendering which makes it possible to change coloring ...etc. very fast.

Good luck!
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valera_rozuvan
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« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2016, 02:32:55 PM »

Will renderer also be changed?
Also, is it posssible to implement Vulcan?

I have some ideas as to the rendering methods I want to try my hand at. Ideally, in the far future, for the high quality rendering you will be able to choose from:

1. Simple ray-marching with approximated lighting, shadows, and coloring
2. Some kind of probabilistic method (Monte Carlo based)
3. Photon mapping
4. Voxel based

As to your other question, I am going for OpenGL 3.x at first. Vulkan tech is promising, but the future will show what niche it's going to take, and whether M4D project will make the switch to it.
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