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Author Topic: Remake of MB3D  (Read 17221 times)
Description: A reboot of the MB3D project
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m2001
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« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2016, 08:50:08 PM »

Thargor has continued updates on mb3d. He has added many feature such as direct 3d export, height map frames for animation, formula editor and I'm sure much more.  Have to contacted them? I am sure you they would be able to help you as Thargor has a good understanding of the source.
http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-3d/active-mb3d-develoment-stopped-from-my-side/
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valera_rozuvan
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« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2016, 01:41:47 PM »

I have set up a poll to help chose a new name for the remake of MB3D. Please find it here http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=24335.0. Hope everyone will vote!


I am off for the seas! Will be back in 14 days  smiley
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Spain2points
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« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2016, 10:25:23 PM »

I would like to be able to apply different maps to different parts of an hybrid.
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KRAFTWERK
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« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2016, 11:56:22 AM »

Wow, this is great news Valera.

First thoughts:
Keep the interface as similar to MB3D as possible, somehow Jesse made it easy to grasp and use, of course it is not perfect and can be better but it is (I think) the most widely used 3D fractal renderer, and there must be a reason...

The only two features I really miss in MB3D:
GPU rendering
Color mesh export

And about the formulas... (very important for the popularity of MB3D)
Luca should have the assembly for all his formulas? so you shouldn't need to translate them from code... I will try to get in contact with him.

I really hope this project will continue, looking forward to see the result hands on!
Good luck with it Valera! A Beer Cup
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Sockratease
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« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2016, 12:47:22 PM »

Wow, this is great news Valera.

First thoughts:
Keep the interface as similar to MB3D as possible, somehow Jesse made it easy to grasp and use, of course it is not perfect and can be better but it is (I think) the most widely used 3D fractal renderer, and there must be a reason...

I have to agree with that!

If you go with the node based interface, I would not even try to connect it with MB3D.  It would be an entirely different user experience.  Too different to claim it is related to the original in any way except "under the hood."

Even Mandelbulber's interface breaks my tiny little brain.  But I get along just fine with MB3D  (I keep meaning to do a "step by step" of me trying to use Mandelbulber and point out exactly where I just close the program for 3 or 4 tries, just to show where I get tripped up - but that is a topic for elsewhere!).

Node based programs are nowhere near as "intuitive" for me as I have heard many people claim about them.  But then again, I am old and have trouble with smart phones!  I just like a menu driven system and don't "get" a lot of modern interfaces.

If you go with nodes, try to make them optional if that is even possible.  Or, as I said, it would cease to be what made MB3D so special.

A program's interface is far more important than it's functionality for ease of use and therefore desire to use it often.  Fractals are my Playtime and I really don't want to have to work too hard to figure out an interface.  If I were making money on it, things would be different.  But for play...  I just stick with whatever programs I pick up on and stick with them.  I try many, but few fractal generators were as compatible with my way of thinking about making fractal art as MB3D!

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m2001
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« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2016, 01:24:32 PM »

i plead for a formula node editor  smiley

my personal reasons in this mockup - yellow notes on top
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zs_zm2KjR3RzFITjRfRk1GMkk/view

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blob
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« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2016, 02:36:53 PM »

Node based programs are nowhere near as "intuitive" for me as I have heard many people claim about them.  But then again, I am old and have trouble with smart phones!  I just like a menu driven system and don't "get" a lot of modern interfaces.

I have trouble with smart phones too (hurt) but I think a node based approach is the way to go at least as far as mixing formulas is concerned as this would allow to mix them in any kind of ways the current interface/paradigm doesn't allow such as for example DECombinating two or more alternate hybrids which is the kind of thing I am sure many would want to be able to do.

Of course a scripting approach/solution could allow for this too but give me a node based graphical interface over a blank text field any day.

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KRAFTWERK
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« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2016, 03:43:08 PM »

...but I think a node based approach is the way to go at least as far as mixing formulas is concerned as this would allow to mix them in any kind of ways the current interface/paradigm doesn't allow such as for example DECombinating two or more alternate hybrids which is the kind of thing I am sure many would want to be able to do...

I'll second that! DE combinates of several hybrids would be great!
I can see the point in node based formula mixing... I just think the overall interface of MB3D is great as it is...
(That doesn't mean it is perfect, I am sure it can be made even more intuitive!)
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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2016, 04:32:16 PM »

Would it be possible to code the core application with an API so other developers could design external add-ons to customize the user interface and/or post processing options?
In the long term - yes. A method to add plugins, such as the one used in Blender, can be created. An interpreted language, such as JavaScript or Python, can be used for plugin coding. However, this has to be thought through carefully, and the design of the program must allow for such a system in the future.

I am hoping that with a robust API both UI camps can be accommodated. (Current vs node)

The current interface will still need some major work to handle High DPI monitors.
The interface is already showing problems on my 1920 x 1200 monitor, much less 4K.
Text overlaps check boxes to the right and is cut off on the left.
Tiny text in the formula drop down lists begs the need for a formula browser.

How would the current interface handle a string of 12 formulas/addons?

Imagine a situation where you want to change the scale value of 2 different formulas at the same time.
Link the 2 scale settings with a widget (like an x/y pad that adjusts curves in a graphics program) that can vary the values between an adjustable upper and lower limit as you view the results in the Navigator.
This could make exploring much faster compared to switching between tabs to adjust each formula separately.
This is just a simple example of the flexibility of a node based interface.
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1Bryan1
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« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2016, 01:22:56 AM »

If you want true flexibility then ...
    > separate the user interface from the program interface
    > make the user interface a plug in
That way ...
    > those that want a node interface can implement that type of experience
    > those that want a button interface can implement that type of experience
    > etc.
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thargor6
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« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2016, 02:00:16 AM »

Just as an advice, not a critique: you should think about goals first and then chose technology. My experience is (and that is quiet a lot) that many developers chose just a technology to be able to play with it by themselves, and not to solve a problem.

MB3D is very popular for its interface, simple use, number of possibilities, render quality, probably some more stuff.


So, the question is (also for developers like me, if to contribute or not), what is the goal? Make the same, but in different language? Make it totally different, but able to render the old stuff? Make a 1:1 copy, but faster? Invent new stuff? What is the difference to Mandelbulber? What are the target groups? ...


Node-based or not, in my opinion, are just details for later, there could be other choices as well (e.g. a tree), just different views of the same (flexible) thing.
Regarding the node-based stuff: I would think that it will not feel "sexy" for most users, they usually are not scientists, but artists.

Just my 2 cents,
best regards,
Andreas

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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2016, 05:57:54 AM »

MB3D is very popular for its interface, simple use, number of possibilities, render quality, probably some more stuff.

Regarding the node-based stuff: I would think that it will not feel "sexy" for most users, they usually are not scientists, but artists.

I never got used to the UI by myself, I think I would have created a very different one, which does not mean that it would have been better. Especially only one editor window with easier access to all the properties.
Did you ever make any rough drafts of your ideas for a different UI?
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Brocoli
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« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2016, 10:29:32 AM »

I don't understand the problem, is it the ui design that i do for the interface or the node based editor ?
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m2001
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« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2016, 10:51:13 AM »

I don't understand the problem, is it the ui design that i do for the interface or the node based editor ?

i think no

we discuss the ui in some posts and that should not be the "first" step in this project from architectural and goal aspects, but understandable because thatīs what we can see wink

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Brocoli
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« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2016, 11:05:08 AM »

i think no

we discuss the ui in some posts and that should not be the "first" step in this project from architectural and goal aspects, but understandable because thatīs what we can see wink



Ok.
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