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Author Topic: Remake of MB3D  (Read 6150 times)
Description: A reboot of the MB3D project
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valera_rozuvan
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a test in time


valera.rozuvan valerarozuvan
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« on: July 29, 2016, 11:53:53 AM »

OK guys! Prepare yourself for one amazing ride  smiley MB3D project will be rebooted, and I am going to spear head the development.

So, what's the plan?

We know how the original works from the point of view of the end user. We also have the source code, so we know how it works from the point of view of algorithms and programming. So this is what we are going to do:

1. Restart from scratch. There are far to many things wrong with the original code base to try to continue to work with it.
2. From the start, think of design and structure of the project.
3. Come up with a list of features that definitely need to make their way into the new project from the old one.
4. Tackle the problem of MB3D custom functions. This will be the most time consuming part. The original custom functions will have to be reverse-engineered so that they can be made to work in the new code base. From a technical point of view - this is a straight forward task. It's just going to take a lot of time. And I mean A LOT OF TIME!
5. Create a new UI design. We have been using 3D fractal programs for about 5 years now. So we have some kind of expectations from what the UI should look like, and how it should behave.

Why am I doing this?

1. This is a tremendously difficult technical task. I want to work on something really challenging.
2. I want to save all the work put into MB3D. I think it was a great project, and all the work people did for it (with it) should not go to waste.
3. All this time I have been using other people's 3D fractal software. Now I want to give something back to the community.

Brainstorming

I need your input in this thread on the following:

1. Project name. Should we keep the original name, and just call it version 2? Should we name it something different?
2. List of features that you'd like to see carried over from MB3D.
3. Any new features you want. For example something that is currently in other 3D fractal programs.
4. UI design mock ups, sketches, ideas, etc.
5. Technical side of things. Suggestions for programming language, UI library, architecture, etc.
6. Input on anything else I am forgetting right now.

Even if you don't plan to contribute something in the form of code, visual designs, etc., I still want to hear from you!  smiley



!!! For the summary of this thread see comment #68 !!!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 03:36:26 PM by valera_rozuvan » Logged

m2001
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 11:57:40 AM »

crazy --- cool !!!

month ago i mockupted a node based formula editor wink
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zs_zm2KjR3dngxWlFrc2dPbWs/view
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Brocoli
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 12:13:47 PM »

Amazing !  cheesy

I go make my checklist and i will put later a ui design.
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valera_rozuvan
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a test in time


valera.rozuvan valerarozuvan
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 02:00:20 PM »

month ago i mockupted a node based formula editor wink
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zs_zm2KjR3dngxWlFrc2dPbWs/view

Thanks for sharing! Can you please update it, and translate all your comments into English? Or maybe, write down here the comments in English for each item in your design?
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3dickulus
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 02:35:13 PM »

2 cents  smiley
if you're starting from scratch, don't limit yourself right off the bat by reproducing/recoding one program, I think you should look at all of the best features from all of the best existing programs, take what has been learned and developed over the last 5 years and create a community driven code base that can continue to grow and evolve with technology. Currently there are a number of very good programs that each have pros and cons, my favorite is, of course, Fragmentarium for it's easy and direct access to programming formulas on the GPU and animating them. edit: and the render quality
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m2001
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 02:52:58 PM »

Thanks for sharing! Can you please update it, and translate all your comments into English? Or maybe, write down here the comments in English for each item in your design?

sure wink
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zs_zm2KjR3RzFITjRfRk1GMkk/view?usp=sharing
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hobold
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 04:12:48 PM »

Yet another modest proposal: call it "ReBulb3D", because it is a rebooted Mandelbulb3D. :-)

On a more serious note:
You might want to not only make a list of features that you definitely want to preserve. You could also make a list of things that are definitely not going to be in the first working release.

It is tempting to "throw away the prototype" and do a big project from a grand, ingenious, overarching plan. But it is also very hard to wrap ones mind around something that grand. I think evolution works better than revolution. Create a modest little beast first, a badass single cell organism that can live on its own. It must work well enough that a few people can use it for little projects, and give you feedback. This tells you early on which parts of your grand plan are good, and which parts are less so.

Let that feedback be the selective pressure which drives evolution.
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Madman
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 08:33:18 PM »

Kudos Valera! I really admire your willingness to take this huge project on you!

I can only help you by using the tool, but if I like it, I will  cheesy

Answering your questions, there are some things I would like to stay: I like the sharp rendering M3D does in comparison to some other programs. Please keep that. Secondly, I've been working with M3D for quite some time, so if the interface would be comparable that would be great too. Don't throw away the navigator. It's a great tool for a rough exploration.

Things that in my opnion could be improved
  • I wouldn't mind if the skin would go back to a lighter (neutral) color.
  • Many formula's have been developed during the life cycle of M3D. So many, that finding one has become difficult. Especially the "Ads" section might become easier to use if it was rearranged in clearer subcategories.
  • Indefinite lights
  • Indefinite formula's
  • This is not so much for me, but I know other people would like it: A formula editor.
  • Real global lights (with this I mean lights that cast parallel shadows)
  • Easier interface to move lights around, maybe just by adding coordinates to the sliders
  • A possibility to reset one or more axes to an orthogonal position to the viewport in the navigator
  • More realistic DoF
But I also have to agree with hobold: One step at a time will do it.

I'm quite happy with M3D as it is, including al the improvements that Thargor already did, so take your time. If I can help in any way (but I'm not a programmer...) let me know.
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Spain2points
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 09:14:40 PM »

I would like to have more formulas to work with, and be able to use more than 6 slots. And to make hybrids of 3 parts or more. Also I'd like to have more control on the application of the maps, it's too ramdom.
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valera_rozuvan
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a test in time


valera.rozuvan valerarozuvan
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 09:37:05 PM »

I'll let this thread run for a week or so. Afterwards, a design document will need to be formulated out of all the ideas. A roadmap will then follow. Obviously the project will implement features in iterations - not all at once. The great wall of China was not built in a day  smiley
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valera_rozuvan
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a test in time


valera.rozuvan valerarozuvan
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 02:06:17 AM »

Many formula's have been developed during the life cycle of M3D. So many, that finding one has become difficult. Especially the "Ads" section might become easier to use if it was rearranged in clearer subcategories.

I am thinking that a visual gallery of currently available formulas will be a nice addition to the program. If the user doesn't know what he wants, he can just quickly look through what's available. There is a nice compiled list of MB3D formulas along with their rendered image by LynTaryn.

Also, there needs to be an ability to search by keywords through all formula descriptions. Maybe even add additional keywords to each formula, and create categories based on keywords.
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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 02:49:20 AM »

Formula database?
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LMarkoya
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 03:25:54 AM »

I have a much simpler request, a batch renderer, where you can just load several files and have them rendered overnight
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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 04:04:22 AM »

I have a much simpler request, a batch renderer, where you can just load several files and have them rendered overnight
I believe there is already a batch render under Utilities/Tools. (m3p to m3i)
Is that what you want or are you looking for something different?

Edit:Batch thumbnails and formula browser
I would like to generate thumbnails for .m3p files in History folder.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 01:37:58 AM by 0Encrypted0, Reason: Add link to feature request » Logged

m2001
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 06:54:53 AM »

wink next try

with Main window
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zs_zm2KjR3VjlEOUxkMTM2Rk0/view?usp=sharing
- Main Window = Navigator
-> rendering > separate window
- stagged options - all in one window - except the formula (nodes)


the formula nodes
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zs_zm2KjR3RzFITjRfRk1GMkk/view?usp=sharing


but i will stop here! as hobold sayd and after a short talk with a former mb3d programmer ...
i quote: "... Create a modest little beast first ..." smiley

« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 07:21:29 AM by m2001 » Logged

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