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Author Topic: Duplicate Subblue 3D Mandelbulb Ray Tracer Object in Mandelbulb 3d?  (Read 3704 times)
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Holtenwood
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« on: March 14, 2012, 01:38:38 AM »

I first started playing with Mandelbulbs using Subblue's (Tom Beddard) Adobe Pixel Bender file mandelbulb.pbk (3D Mandelbulb Ray Tracer). Mostly because I was already using Photoshop and was familiar with Pixel Bender.

While playing I happened to come up with a shape very close to what I needed for some art I am working on. But I needed more versatile lighting and colouring. Plus being able to convert to a 3D mesh would be really useful as can be done using the Voxelstack option of Mandelbulb 3D. (image of object attached)

So I tried to duplicate my work from Subblue's program into Madelbulb 3D. So far I have not been able to do it. Partially it may be I am just not able to find the correct formula. Or I may need to write my own formula. Either way, I am hoping for some hints or help where to go to do this. Or if it is possible at all?

1) Has anyone else tried duplicating a Subblue mandelbulb.pbk object in Madelbulb 3D? Is there a formula already written?

I tried the "general" Mandelbulb 3D formula. With default parameters the "general" mandelbulb looks very close to the subblue image using its default parameters. But then I try a negative power as the subblue pbk allows. The results are completely different than what subblue's mandelbulb does.

2) Is there a formula which does a standard mandelbulb handling negative powers similar to subblue's?

For my shape using subblue's mandelbulb.pbk. I also need to restrict the y value as per the description for the "radiolaria" option:
radiolaria: when enabled this option constrains the y component of the triplex number resulting in interesting spiky structures.
(the formula restricts y to min:-4 and max:4)

3) Is there a formula which allows me to restrict the min/max values of the y component of the triplex number?

I am also attaching mandelbulb.pbk in case you need to look at the original code. I have converted it to a simple text file since .pbk is not an allowed file type for attachments in this forum.

Thank you,

- Timothy
- Timothy


* Psychopathy8.jpg (87.4 KB, 356x360 - viewed 1474 times.)
* Mandelbulb.txt (18.09 KB - downloaded 259 times.)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 12:22:48 AM by Holtenwood » Logged
KRAFTWERK
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 09:43:57 AM »

Hello Timothy

I used Subblues pixelbenderscript for a long time before I went mandelbulb 3D.
I found out that it actually has a faulty formula (I was comparing to Daniel Whites original mandelbulb at the time and Subblues bulb was too "hollow".)
If I remember correctly there was a sine where there should be a cosine or the other way around.

I corrected the fault in Pixelbender at the time, it was rather easy to change formulas.
Not sure if it is possible to recreate that fault in mandelbulb 3D though... I would rather experiment and combine it with other formulas to get similar, or even more interesting results... wink
Cheers
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Holtenwood
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 09:16:56 PM »

Thank you KRAFTWERK,

Did you happen to save a "fixed" version of the mandelbulb.pbk file? If so, could you send it to me (attach to reply)? That way I could compare the two and reverse engineer Subblue's formula.

I know I will probably use Mandelbulb 3D from now on. However, in this case I just happened to come up with a shape which was close to perfect for a specific need. Trying to find a similar shape in the billions? trillions? infinite? possibilities in Mandelbulb 3D would be nearly impossible just by trying things randomly.

- Timothy
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KRAFTWERK
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 08:11:02 AM »

OK, I understand your problem Timothy

I will check my archives and see if I can find it... it is there somewhere.

Until I do, you could check out my rantings in this old thread:
http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-implementation/mandelbulb-ray-tracing-plugin-for-photoshop-aftereffects-and-quartzcomposer/msg10538/

Cheers
Johan
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 08:18:28 AM by KRAFTWERK » Logged

Holtenwood
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 12:06:21 AM »

Never mind everyone. It seems I am on a useless quest. I finally found the forum post which indicates Mandelbulb 3D does not handle negative powers. Since what I was hoping to do required using negative powers, Mandelbulb 3D is not going to work for me  cry
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Jesse
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2012, 12:14:17 AM »

I would not say that m3d does not handle it, it is just really slow if you have to render inside because negative powers is like sphere-inversions i guess.... try this:

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Y.....S....O/...6....2...............1.........E................................
........................................kz1........A./..................y.2.....
..........E/..../M.0/......38...h.....E2.....omEQgisq6rD/..........m/dkpXm1....U
z.....kD12../..........wz..................................u1....y1...sD...../..
.w1...sDYsAIxzzzjz1..........WAbUdisqcljRRxgCKosEwnYRydIKa5uzwPN9SaPRGyDFHQlSHA1
Iw1iNMIOip7tzqF/G0ZZtVyD......I52........2....kD.2....sD..kz....................
.............oAnAr1...sD....zU/Sw8.islf.MZ5j0UTSw8.aulf.sg5j0UxSw8......5....k1.
..................kz.wzzz1.U..6.P....M4...EB....W....k1....5....//...I1.....SF52
...U.qFG9yzb2zzzRYoWzz7lz16.mc..zXCc..k18XGQeGyD/sIRhrVAkz1..........2.28.kFrA0.
.Ub96aAIVz9.1se7Umvxz0........../6U0.wzzz1................................E.0c..
zzzz.................................2U.8.kzzzD.................................
/6U0.wzzz1...................................2CcN/UvNP6.eeWCNq0.yRii.EJJUk1f..XR
S1.mx3CcN/UvNP6.QsLsUa3.ibhV..bTV1OK.sSq40.ly3CcN/UvNP6.MwLsUa3.ibhV.kqTV1OK.sSq
40.kz3CcN/UvNP6...EsUa3.eeWCNq0.IJ36wk8.wyLsUa3.................................
E.U..2....E...../....6....UIZ34PU.pPrJaQ.IaQ....................................
...................6.1........zj................................................
................................................................................
........................}



I would stay with a GPU renderer if you want this type in an animation!
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DarkBeam
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2012, 11:17:02 PM »

Mb3d is the most flexible renderer ever, do not give up so soon
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No sweat, guardian of wisdom!
Holtenwood
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Posts: 7


« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 08:36:45 PM »

Thank you for the parameter file which allows negative powers. Yes it renders fairly slowly. But it comes up with some fascinating structures which I think are worth the time. Also, I am currently interested in still images so the rendering time does not matter as much as in animations.

The results are quite different from subblue's mandelbulb.pbk. However, as has been noted before, the subblue algorithm is slightly different from the standard Daniel White equations. For the moment I have done what I needed in subblue's Pixel Bender Photoshop plugin.

For future mandelbulbs I think I will mostly use Mandelbulb 3D.

I am attaching a couple of examples of negative power mandelbulbs. 1) -8 power, 2) -8 power with julia mode.

I am also attaching the almost final image using subblue's mandelbulb.pbk. Yes, it is dark. Yes it has a somewhat horrific combination of colours. Yes, those lips looking like they are painted with glossy lipstick, yet bruised blue on the underside, transposed with the falling apart inward spirals, are rather disturbing. As you might expect from something called "psychopathy" - that is the intent. Believe me if I am successful for the entire piece it should be even more disturbing when I am done.

Thank you for all your help.

- Timothy Atwood
Holtenwood Computing
www.holtenwood.bc.ca/computing/
Holtenwood Studios / Atwood Glass
www.atwoodglass.com




* mandelbulb_-8p.png (186.9 KB, 480x360 - viewed 1603 times.)

* mandelbulb_-8p_julia.png (207.96 KB, 480x360 - viewed 1344 times.)

* psychopathy.jpg (115.46 KB, 600x600 - viewed 509 times.)
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Jesse
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 09:33:56 PM »

Indeed, i was also surprised about the shapes in the negative power bulb, thanks for pointing at it.

Unfortunately, and as you can see in the m3d images, there is an issue in coloring and normals when rendered inside and when the shape is iteration limited, like in this case.  But increasing max-iterations will slow down rendering even more.
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DarkBeam
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Fragments of the fractal -like the tip of it


« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2012, 09:07:26 AM »

I still wonder how to get this;

http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=742.msg8407#msg8407

 huh? horsie riding
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No sweat, guardian of wisdom!
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