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Author Topic: Active MB3D Develoment stopped from my side  (Read 3047 times)
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thargor6
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« on: June 26, 2016, 03:56:34 AM »

Hi all,
just wanted to note that I have stopped any MB3D-related development. This has the following reasons:
1. Overall code quality/unreadable code which does not allow any extension without a huge risk and a ridiculous amount of time
2. Lack of serious feedback from users (except of: "I neeeeeeeeeeeeeed GPU support or I will become an angryyyyy birdddd")
3. Expensive development environment required, even if the most of the code is ASM-code
4. Commitments of other people which were never met: many people wanted to be helpful when it started, but nobody actually helped.
5. Serious lack of spare time and motivation on my side
6. Hardcoded limits everywhere, you can not change the number of lights, not the number of formulas, not the number of params of a formula, not introduce any new feature, not anything without having a massive pain everywhere, it is just a dead piece of flesh


Sorry, this are probably not good news to many people, but I think, it is better to say it clear and stop false hopes/promises.

When possible, I will update the software and remove some reported bugs, but please do not count on it. I will even try to finish V1.92 with some more mesh/point-cloud-export-related stuff. But, likely, this will be my last addition.
If demanded, I would rather want to join the Mandelbulber or Synthclipse project.

Best regards,
Andreas





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1Bryan1
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2016, 05:04:04 AM »

Thank you for all your efforts.
Much appreciate the improvements your blood and sweat has added.
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LMarkoya
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 05:55:58 AM »

WHat you did do for the program already has been amazing and all your work greatly appreciated. Its too bad you could not be financially rewarded, as it has been worth it to thousands of users.
But speaking for myself
Everything you did was amazing and appreciated
BEst Wishes on everything and anything you decide tro spend time on
I look forward to tne new 3D aspects of Jwildfire

SIncerely

Louis
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mclarekin
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2016, 09:44:46 AM »

Yes exactly as Louis said it, thanks from all of us for stepping up and enhancing the program.  All your reasons make good sense.

M3D will continue to entertain users for years to come.




 
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Sockratease
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2016, 10:04:55 AM »

Many thanks for stepping in and making such a valiant effort!

Your work made an already great program better.

I'm sure the extra time will only help your work on JWildfire and anything else you pursue.

Who knows, maybe another brave and talented soul will make the effort to pick up the project at some time in the future  (I know the issues involved make that unlikely, but they said the code was so strange that nobody could pick it up where Jesse left it, but you managed some great work!)  (So never say never!)  (Except just then).
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2016, 03:10:49 PM »

indeed a sad note but totally understandable, main problem was the huge investment for the development system that might have stopped most of the people in engaging in any way, for me this was the blocker from the start sad

anyways, as others have said you already pushed the program, and the source remains public?
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thargor6
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2016, 06:38:44 PM »

and the source remains public?
Yes, of course


Thanks and cheers!
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DarkBeam
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2016, 07:37:31 PM »

Thanks for your efforts Andreas!
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0Encrypted0
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2016, 09:29:08 PM »

6. Hardcoded limits everywhere, you can not change the number of lights, not the number of formulas, not the number of params of a formula, not introduce any new feature, not anything without having a massive pain everywhere, it is just a dead piece of flesh
JIT, Mesh Export & Mutagen from a dead piece of flesh makes you Dr. Frankenstein wink

If I remember correctly, did you have an early beta with 8 formula slots?
Is it still available?

As for the hardcoded limits, Jesse and DarkBeam have been quite clear about the difficulties.

Maybe in a few years we can unleash an AI Neural Network on the program code. cheesy
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 10:53:10 PM by 0Encrypted0 » Logged
KRAFTWERK
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2016, 11:41:46 AM »

0Encrypted0 already said exactly what I was thinking, Jesse said the code would be impossible to work with, so you already did the impossible!

I am sorry I didn't have more to do any betatest reports (I had the impression a lot of other users did) also sad to hear the stupid response you've had from "people" who only demands things - that kind is only worth ignoring.

Thank you for your efforts Andreas, you did the impossible! ...only thing I had wished for was colored voxel or mesh export sad But there is still so much we can do with it as it is! smiley

Cheers
Johan
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3dickulus
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2016, 02:25:59 PM »

0Encrypted0 already said exactly what I was thinking, Jesse said the code would be impossible to work with, so you already did the impossible!

I am sorry I didn't have more to do any betatest reports (I had the impression a lot of other users did) also sad to hear the stupid response you've had from "people" who only demands things - that kind is only worth ignoring.

Thank you for your efforts Andreas, you did the impossible! ...only thing I had wished for was colored voxel or mesh export sad But there is still so much we can do with it as it is! smiley

Cheers
Johan

dito! people don't understand what it is to get your head into 1000s of lines of code. especially someone else 's code.
mesh from point cloud is not easy. your efforts are greatly appreciated.  A Beer Cup
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wat902h
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 01:32:32 PM »

It was somewhat surprising and sad to read your statement the next day after I tried your program. You named several reasons for your decision to quit the game ... they look convincing. Perhaps you are too young to understand that really interesting problems are rare things. Of course, your decision is your right. However, as soon as you mention the lack of interesting and easy-to-implement  proposals for the development of the program, I want to make a few observations.
Firstly, the idea of automatic mutation is very good, because the fractal  surface is very sensitive to changes in the parameters, and manual "mutation" is ineffective. But there are two problems. The first is the optimum camera position deviation, whereby the current image after mutation becomes useless for  quality evaluation of the mutation result. The second problem - the lack of criteria for evaluating the quality of mutation result and, therefore, the choice of the direction of further mutations.
The solution to these problems would be automatic "viewfinder" that selects the camera position on the criterion of the quality of the visual surface. It can be a stand-alone module that accepts  3D field of points - a rough representation  of the fractal.
I have been using this approach for the selection of fractal curves, synthesized with random choise of parameters. My algorithm automatically records videos of creation and decomposition of "successful" solutions, as well as main parameters of synthesis. The results are very convincing.
Of course, I have no right to lecture you, but do not give up work, which is so close to completion. If you will provide the possibility of unloading the cube of rough data, I can help in the choice of the fractal image quality criteria.

Best regard anyway.
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thargor6
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 06:13:00 PM »

It was somewhat surprising and sad to read your statement the next day after I tried your program. You named several reasons for your decision to quit the game ... they look convincing. Perhaps you are too young to understand that really interesting problems are rare things.
Hi, thanks for your feedback. The latter is probably a misunderstanding. It is not that I'm not interested in/challenged by solving problems. In fact this is what I do day by day, being full-time-employed in the field of software development. Additionally, I do maintain a rather large open source project which will receive some major addition this year. And, in addition to all of this: MB3D + the impressions mentioned above.

I have been using this approach for the selection of fractal curves, synthesized with random choise of parameters. My algorithm automatically records videos of creation and decomposition of "successful" solutions, as well as main parameters of synthesis. The results are very convincing.
This is valuable feedback, but unfortunately it comes too late.
I released the MutaGen about 5 months ago and rarely got any serious feedback, especially not from outside the fractalforums.com  

The current state was intended as first version and should receive further additions. Also in regard to points you mentioned, I'm working with mutations for a longer time. But, there was no interest/feedback from others.



But, it is open-source, so anybody can take over :-)

Best regards

« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 06:20:53 PM by thargor6 » Logged
Spain2points
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2016, 09:34:09 PM »

Hi, I don't understand a thing about coding or programming, but I totally get that it must be a drag not to get the support you need, especially when it's all done for the love of the art, so to speak. All I can say is thanks. I'm still hopeful, I can see a bright future for MB3D, even if it doesn't develop much further it's a very powerful program and we'll keep seeing a growing number of fractal artists and magnificent pieces of work thanks to it.
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thargor6
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2016, 11:01:42 PM »

If I remember correctly, did you have an early beta with 8 formula slots?
Hi, thank you for your comment!
I have finally found the early beta and re-packed it and placed it under downloads. Maybe someone else may also enjoy it. Please notice the warning-notice!

Cheers!

Andreas
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