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Author Topic: 3D Navi wouldn't show the main rendering content at all - ?  (Read 2312 times)
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Sfumato
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Posts: 94



« on: August 14, 2011, 09:10:43 PM »


Dear friends I am posting 4 examples (enclosed below) of my today's morning efforts all with the same problem. This happens too often to me: the '3D Navi' shows me empty screen (neither with F6 nor without it) though I have a certain scene visible in main window of the program. Frankly speaking I started 4 times today and all of them ended in failure. I want say to slide (walk) or 'look' to the left by I can't do it in '3D Navi'. If I do it in main window it is a very time consuming process...
I remember being advised to take my ball and go home in these case. But it happens to-o-o often. Perhaps there's some mistakes in my settings? Please let me know how to obviate the problem.
Thank You in advance,
Sfumato.

P. S. Sometimes I feel that we are using different programs as other fractalforum folks produce unbelievable artworks and discuss "the variation in values dependent on the bulb periods", and I am still inundating the forum with questions concerning this or that feature that fails to function properly with me.

Examples:

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Q....kX....k0...w.....Q............6.1.......61EPbdKZzH5kz13DCTPZ7Joz0..........
......................................ktc12........Y./..................kz1.....
.................M.1/....6kvE...n/....E2.....UoEszk8YCbD/..........c./...wX.BnAH
z.EnAnQD/2../2.......................sIZcqZ8C.A...........U0.....y1...sD...../..
.wHnAngDQJe9c9iBOw1A7/auWPX4zU2bVezzzzyDrx834pBuizHhCx0kx/7ozO3X.B1I78ljK11opq5Y
EzHbr19FRXivzoORfDxXB.mj......oI6.............kD.2....sD..kz............GVf53iSI
8.A..........A6U.i1...........KRf4..qhO.UOre/.oRf4.srhO..Wre/.GSf4..............
..................kz.wzzz1.j.6D......k1...kB....L....c3....4....5/...gX9..E8Os42
...U.eoZgzjdqZpz8R7vzPeRN/..0c..zzzz............5wyBIC4OWz1..........2U.8.UQgk0.
IwUmc2beYz1RdA8E5Exwz0........../6U0.wzzz1................................E.0c..
zzzz.................................2U.8.kzzzD.................................
/6U0.wzzz1....................................6EU.......U9lz.0..z17k.Mc7U27B.sjc
y/U69/6..0EVDnD.DrKkqs/.vrCD..bT.026.......ly/6EU.......Mw5U./0......kqT.026....
...kz/6EU..........U./0.zz/6FG1.yzHkqs/.xzZteKA.................................
E....E....E.....I....c....EHZtqNZ7rA.61.s/................................U/4MU/
4M.................wz..........E..........2........../.......s1E........o.2.....
...B./..........................................................................
.....................Q...../....1....2IPVdLOiR460x4S..pPr/......................
.Qk0...........................E........Ez1........wz...........................
................................................................................
................................Y/...M....k.....4x4PYZaPb/GGiF56ExqR............
..........U0.U............................2.......U5.1......../E................
................................................................................
..........................................E.....I....I....kLmxqQnlKNm/..........
...................................................7./........xD........6.2.....
...szcNaNaNaNauD................................................................
........................................................}

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Q....gV...kZ/...ET...2A...EzDVdWxUO5.1.......60E2ucnUehRszXgYtjiOpV2./..........
................................CY7bOO5y642........Y./.................U4/2.....
................/M.1/....AUD/...ZC....kg.....I38p40Q7HRD/..tr9sD...c./...u1.WatJ
y.....cD/2../2.........3.1................................U0.....y1...sD...../..
.wXaNadDip9wopWY7rfPayteLAgHxyDkMOGkX/RjqcQHh9a8zp9fvTfocRApxgxjvZwsjBLDgmUZesSM
ErXakhGlOCYUxI/hLolNEaQj.....5IK/.............kD.2....PE.2kz....................
.............A6U.i1...........KRf4..qhO.UOre/.oRf4.srhO..Wre/.GSf4..............
................9.kz.wzzz1EK.65......61...k9....I....U3...E9....b....MH3....dliA
...U.CRq2wTlMolzRiS5znV7t...1c..zzzz.MQizccZWGyD7EdGkxmWcz1...........k.8.kXWF1.
QvM93P58iz9GMmnWK2zwz0..........33E2/Ij0W/k1gyQ1Ths2.L89HAxQ4H.E5BIla/nD7.Q//2H.
HMgt.ckJ6bWPXV/kI9Q/tO.DFyv9VyTBmKz5.3V68sTztj3.dKFcRtBvvzHwcEO5Jb5wze89U4O1b.xj
/6U0.2irR1...................................2zjU0USt6/.vuEe.L..mrje.sw4xnQq.Yd/
j..UbwUUr..anX9.nsGxRD..yHDc..xHjnEF.oDoQ1USM/uBZ.EHVM/.xzJ5z24.RbCx.s4O0vjm.EUl
R..zqVs.D0ky3vD....crI0.zzFoTu2.yzngi84.xzZX.45.................................
E....A.....E....2....A....EEh3aSdtqNU6oPs/UQ..........................k/9.......
...................wz...........JXLua210Uz1.....................................
................................................................................
.....................2.....3..../....wZFjl4NdtqNm..NdtqNl.......................
6.....E./MU/4................U/E................................................
................................................................................
................................6....E....k...../pKMuZaPb/WEjV5.Z/..............
............5g............................YNaNaNaNapz.........zD................
...../.............................................................0./..........
............................................}

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Q....gV...kZ/...ET...2A...EzDVdWxUO5.1.......60E2ucnUehRszXgYtjiOpV2./..........
................................CY7bOO5y642........Y./.................U4/2.....
................/M.1/....AUR8.........kg.....I38p40Q7HRD/..tr9sD...c./...u1.WatJ
y.....kD/2../2.........3.1................................U0.....y1...sD...../..
.wXNaNqDip9wopWY7rfPayteLAgHxyDkMOGkX/RjqcQHh9a8zp9fvTfocRApxgxjvZwsjBLDgmUZesSM
ErXakhGlOCYUxI/hLolNEaQj.....5Yl/.............kD.2....PE.2kz....................
.............A6U.i1...........KRf4..qhO.UOre/.oRf4.srhO..Wre/.GSf4..............
................9.kz.wzzz1EK.65......k1...k9....L....c3...E9....b....MH3....dliA
...U.ajDiyjdqZpz8R7vz52sT...0c..zzzz............5wyBIC4OWz1..........2./8..7hT..
8NH/CQa3vzPeJ2OLSnyyz.........../AV0.A.aw1E15T51vojwzM4pMnDnNqyj..........EEpckz
vyzz..CwQOr9PEzDdKFcRtBvvzHdmeZpwzPpz4V78sDdzj9.BQwRAgHzmz9skndRjg/pze89U4O1b.xj
/6U0.2irR1...................................wD...UzWq6./zk.9h0.9mzn.In7lft/.ozu
c/Esb2gBS.UzzS8.JsG/S65.ceQz.YCBp5r..oTyS/kBt.GYo..ZynA.Ve1aVQ..yj9S.AHGvFmG.wTi
L1k6ER.ac..cy19....U./0.zz/6FG1.yzHkqs/.xzZteKA.................................
E....A.....E....I....2....kGVlKOAZaP1xKPWBpI37nQh/...................6k/9.......
...................../..........JXLua210Uz1.....................................
................................................................................
.....................2.....3....7....22JZFbQVNpI...NdtqNl.......................
.Q...MU/46U.4........c8HMViSqizDJJJJJJJJZzXeAV3uuNvuz..................U4/2.....
..cF./.......O2E................................................................
................................6....E/...U.....HBKMgJqEoE4.jV5.Z/..............
.............g..........................kz1........wz.........zD................
...../.............................................................0./..........
............................................}

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Q....kX....k0...w.....Q............6.1.......61EPbdKZzH5kz13DCTPZ7Joz0..........
......................................ktc12........Y./..................kz1.....
.................M.1/....6UR0...j/....E2.....UoEszk8YCbD/..........c./...wX.BnAH
z.EnAnQD/2../2.......................sIZcqZ8C.A...........U0.....y1...sD...../..
.wHnAngDQJe9c9iBOw1A7/auWPX4zU2bVezzzzyDrx834pBuizHhCx0kx/7ozO3X.B1I78ljK11opq5Y
EzHbr19FRXivzoORfDxXB.mj......Ys/.............kD.2....sD..kz............GVf53iSI
8.A..........A6U.i1...........KRf4..qhO.UOre/.oRf4.srhO..Wre/.GSf4..............
..................kz.wzzz1.j.6D......A0...kB.........A4...UK....G....gX9..E8Os42
...U.0aZczDM6/nz.02EzX6dE1..0c..zrhe.cVoK/nl2xvjQvM93P58iz1...........U.8.UQgk0.
IwUmc2beYz1RdA8E5Exwz0........../6U0.wzzz1................................E.0c..
zzzz.................................2U.8.kzzzD.................................
/6U0.wzzz1...................................wzzz1kzzzD.zz/k.1A..1Ak.szDsnwF.UDn
5/EzThdht0kaqa9.QsrzzzD.zzzz..bTsLM5.UTVR..lyVTVR..y3q/.Mw5y3q/.sLM5.kqTsLM5.UTV
R..kzVTVR..y3q/....y3q/.zz/k.1A.yz1yAT2.xzpaqa9.................................
E....E....E.....I....c....EHZtqNZ7rA.61.s/................................U/4MU/
4M.................0./.........E..........2........../.......s1E........o.2.....
...B./..........................................................................
.....................Q...../....1....2IPVdLOiR460x4S..pPr/......................
.Qk0...........................E........Ez1........wz...........................
................................................................................
................................Y/...M....k.....4x4PYZaPb/GGiF56ExqR............
..........U0.U............................2.......U5.1......../E................
................................................................................
..........................................E.....I....I....kLmxqQnlKNm/..........
...................................................7./........xD........6.2.....
...szcNaNaNaNauD................................................................
........................................................}

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MarkJayBee
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Markjaybee Fractal Mark_Jay_Bee
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 10:14:03 PM »

Hi,
Noticed that you've set the 'far plane' to '10000.'. I think the addition of
the decimal point after this - very high! - figure may have caused your problem?
Try the settings shown below, and hope this helps....







* NavShot.jpg (134.73 KB, 640x350 - viewed 254 times.)
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bib
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 11:07:42 PM »

Try to exchange the parameters back and forth between the main window and the 3D Navi, the image will eventually appear.
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Sfumato
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Posts: 94



« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 11:41:44 PM »

Thank You, MarkJayBee, for the time You took to play with the parameters and search for the solution! I'll follow Your advice in future Concerning the far plane, I usually make far plane as far as I can since very often objects disappear when I'm repositioning them in 3DNavy. The program seems to constantly make the rendered depth (z) as narrow as possible.
Thank You, bib. But unfortunately the recipe doesn't work - I've tried it already.
With kindest regards,
Have a lovely Sunday,
Sfumato.
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Jesse
Download Section
Fractal Schemer
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Posts: 1013


« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 12:05:17 AM »

I could repeat myself to use only the navi and dont type in crazy numbers  smiley, but that would be a bit destructive...

Main rendering differs a bit from the navis rendering, the zoom in main is correlated to the local distance estimate in the navi, so if you type in a very high number but you are not that near to a surface, you get a very low distance estimate in the navi at first, because the navi just takes the parameters as they are unless you step further and the DE is calculated by the navi (you can see the object apperaing when stepping).
Thats why the farplane value, that is related to the local DE, is at maximum (over 10000 will be limited) but it would be maybe 10 to 100 times bigger in the main window, if it would use also a near plane like the navi.

Dunno if that helps, in the next version this is more like in the navi, so that would prevent you from doing such things  wink
(but i fear you find a lot of ways to make us busy anyway)
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DarkBeam
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 09:55:29 AM »

Failures are a direct conseguence of Murphy's law, don't be mad about it cheesy
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taurus
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 10:33:50 AM »

... I usually make far plane as far as I can since very often objects disappear when I'm repositioning them in 3DNavy. The program seems to constantly make the rendered depth (z) as narrow as possible.
Quote
I could repeat myself to use only the navi and dont type in crazy numbers...

compromise proposal:
i also tweak the zend plane manually some time, but i agree, that values like 10000 are crazy. depending on used scene, i found values between 0.1 and 10 very useful. above that i never noticed any additional benefit. maybe there is a truth somewhere between black and white. champagne toast

taurus
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lenord
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 03:09:17 PM »

I could repeat myself to use only the navi and dont type in crazy numbers  smiley, but that would be a bit destructive...

Main rendering differs a bit from the navis rendering, the zoom in main is correlated to the local distance estimate in the navi, so if you type in a very high number but you are not that near to a surface, you get a very low distance estimate in the navi at first, because the navi just takes the parameters as they are unless you step further and the DE is calculated by the navi (you can see the object apperaing when stepping).
Thats why the farplane value, that is related to the local DE, is at maximum (over 10000 will be limited) but it would be maybe 10 to 100 times bigger in the main window, if it would use also a near plane like the navi.

Dunno if that helps, in the next version this is more like in the navi, so that would prevent you from doing such things  wink
(but i fear you find a lot of ways to make us busy anyway)
rolling on floor laughing head batting rolling on floor laughing
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Pontigary
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 08:13:20 PM »

Sfumato, trial and error is the only efficient way to study a program like that unfortunately. The navy behaves unpredictable if you haven't got enough experience. You can't expect tutorials, support etc - M3D is young freeware program being developed by one person! Neither Corel nor Adobe one, and even nor Apo with its biography.
Don't pay attention to insulting posts and 'laughing'  of some forum folks and go on asking questions. I know pretty many guys who don't understand something and afraid of asking 'silly' questions. Questions are not silly since there's no manual where it was written that N is a crazy parameter though the program allows You to to use this crazy parameter. And the valuable advice like taurus gave you isn't written isn't written since there's no documentation!
Wish You inspiration and success.
 
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Jesse
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2011, 10:19:54 PM »

Good that some guys got the humorous sense of my reply, but i confess that i have to apologize, Sfumato, because it is somewhat respectless!
No matter if i found no better word than 'crazy' values with my poor vocabulary, i know that it is nearly impossible to know exactly what 'good' values for the specific purpose are.  That is why i give the advice to use only the navi and just adjust the send-back values carefully if at all, because the values can be changed in the navi too to archive more Zend (farplane) or whatever.

So i shut up for now or only give plain descriptions without any doubtful comments, so my tortured soul let me  wink

Please don't stop asking, Sfumato.  (Enough people here that gives good answers)
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lenord
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 12:49:05 AM »

I agree insults accomplish or gain nothing but continuing to do what has been suggested is not a good practice as far as Entering parameter adjustments becomes ridiculous also. I'm no master with this program but what I know what I know by listening to the advice from those who are and not commiting the same errors and expecting different results.
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MarkJayBee
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 12:56:58 AM »

@lenord: mirabile dictu!!
 rolling on floor laughing
Enough already?!
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wmauzey
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 04:46:02 PM »

I use those high numbers also in Far plane (10000) just to get the image back because it breaks down at high zoom when searching for those sought after images start to fade away in the fog or just vanish with that one more mouse click.
 But when hitting parameter in navigator the numbers usually revert to the managable 2 or 3 decimal places.
 
  On a separate note, I sometimes have no image to find in the Main screen or the Navi screen when I first hit Calculate 3D or parameter, I setup the rolling and looking angle at 90 (gives you all quadrants) to see if the image was in back or to the side or EVEN above or below the point of the viewer, In otherwords, I have to check x,y,z directions, in looking where the image may be (some hybrids are small and do not show up over the edge of the parameter of the screens.)
 Other times, it is my fault if NO image of a Hybrid shows because not all the formula(s) work by themselves (such as a formula with a "_" in front of it!) or mixing them up and just getting a yellow screen or colorful target to shoot arrows at. My last resort is which I turn on the fixed Zoom and Steps in the Navigator window (which just loves to slice and dice the image) and press the zoom out button, then do the search as above.
 If this confuse-ing description helps one person find that missing generated 3D fractal, I'll be happy!
-William
 
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