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Author Topic: 3D image of the Mandelbrot Set  (Read 22636 times)
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David Makin
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2006, 01:21:00 PM »

Dear Dave,

Some of our members are expecting bulbs on each ax i.s.o. the so clalled 'lathed' one.

What do you think about it?

Jules.

It's just the way that quaternions work - I'm not personally familiar enough with them mathematically speaking (yet) to give further explanation  sad
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2006, 07:13:01 PM »

David Makin wrote >Just thought I'd show some more images of the 3D Mandelbrot and give the Ultrafractal parameters.

David - I think its a great demonstration here ! - thanks for sharing files smiley

Margit
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David Makin
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« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2006, 12:10:30 AM »


It's just the way that quaternions work - I'm not personally familiar enough with them mathematically speaking (yet) to give further explanation  sad


I should mention what I said in the "meet+greet" forum - I don't think there's a numeric form whereby the standard Mandelbrot (a^2+b) will produce bulbs on all the axes.
In the same message I suggested a couple of ideas for modifications that may produce bulbs in all 3 (or 4) directions and I'm now trying them out - along with a couple of other ideas.
The idea of swapping the (quaternionic) axes of "q" in "q^2+c" on each iteration before calculating q^2+c is not producing the desired result but it is producing some very interesting 3D objects :-)
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maverdigitalarts
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« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2006, 10:13:56 PM »

Just thought I'd show some more images of the 3D Mandelbrot and give the Ultrafractal parameters.
.
.

Here are the parameters:

MMF-MandyQuat {
.
.
.


Hell, yeah, i recognize some of the objectts, i achieved by programming in Processing.

Never thought that Ultrafractal is able to display that. Looks like it has a built in  programming
language.  But the code looks very crypric. Is this compiled ? Is raw UF code available ?


Greetings,

Marco Vernaglione

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David Makin
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« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2006, 11:30:08 PM »


Hell, yeah, i recognize some of the objectts, i achieved by programming in Processing.

Never thought that Ultrafractal is able to display that. Looks like it has a built in  programming
language.  But the code looks very crypric. Is this compiled ? Is raw UF code available ?

Greetings,

Marco Vernaglione


Hi Marco,

The cryptic stuff is not code it's just compressed parameter files, UF can compress them to save space/memory. The formulas themselves are freely available as the "Solid-3D" formulas in the "mmf.ufm" file from the Ultrafractal formula database http://formulas.ultrafractal.com/
I'm part way through writing improved 3D formulas - the existing ones don't use distance estimation for optimisation in finding the solid boundary, my new ones do and are considerably more optimum in terms of speed/accuracy but they're not even really ready for beta-test yet :-)
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« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2006, 12:02:38 AM »

David Makin wrote:
>
>    .....Here are the parameters:
>    ...
>    MMF-MandyQuat {
>    ...
>    MMF-QuatNewton {
>    ...
>    MMF-HyperMandy {

You know... you can add the parameters to this site and make them a "clickable" link for downloading.  It would make the scrolling through a bunch of lines of data unnecessary for everyone.  That way those that care not to use UF will not have to view and read more than they have to.      wink
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David Makin
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« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2006, 03:09:24 PM »


You know... you can add the parameters to this site and make them a "clickable" link for downloading.


Just checked out what you mean in the parameter forum - will do so in future :-)
Are attachments automatically clickable (e.g. upr files ?) or after attaching the file do I need to do something else to make them clickable ?
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heneganj
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« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2006, 11:03:07 PM »

The current list of supported extensions is as follows:

ttf,fim,txt,doc,pdf,jpg,gif,mpg,png,avi,psd,frs,dz,xep,loo,ufr

I can add more extensions as required.
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David Makin
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« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2006, 12:11:56 AM »

The current list of supported extensions is as follows:

ttf,fim,txt,doc,pdf,jpg,gif,mpg,png,avi,psd,frs,dz,xep,loo,ufr

I can add more extensions as required.


Ultrafractal parameter files are .upr
They are actually just plain text files.
Unless you've got a really clever way of displaying the embedded images from .ufr files then you shouldn't really allow that format - it includes embedded copies of the actual image as well as the parameters (the image presumably in some custom Ultrafractal format).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 12:16:30 AM by David Makin » Logged

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maverdigitalarts
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« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2006, 10:44:28 PM »


Hi Marco,

The cryptic stuff is not code it's just compressed parameter files, UF can compress them to save space/memory. The formulas themselves are freely available as the "Solid-3D" formulas in the "mmf.ufm" file from the Ultrafractal formula database http://formulas.ultrafractal.com/
I'm part way through writing improved 3D formulas - the existing ones don't use distance estimation for optimisation in finding the solid boundary, my new ones do and are considerably more optimum in terms of speed/accuracy but they're not even really ready for beta-test yet :-)



Hi David,

I think i should stop to try to program stuff in Processing,  instead to move to do something with Ultra Fractal!

It could be also be much faster than that Processing Java code.

Is it also possible to bring UF to save frames of any (modification) layer ?

To explain it further... my code reveals the body of the 3dfractal as slices of "onion rings", every slice is saved
to HD, for later composition.

It goes from the very outerior ( Infinity ), through the chaos wrinkles ( The frontier between chaos and order )  to the core ( The (M)-Set ).

e.g can this be done within UF ?


Greetings,

Marco Vernaglione


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lycium
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« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2006, 11:18:16 PM »

It could be also be much faster than that Processing Java code.

hmm, that's an interesting question... on the one hand, i wouldn't really expect uf to be that much faster than java since most java implementations have just-in-time compilation, which has been tuned for a number of years and i suspect uf's scripting is interpreted*; on the other hand i'll bet uf has built in functions for dealing with complex numbers and quaternions (which will be a real boon for you given what i said in your cubic/quintic mandelbrot set thread), which will use fast c/c++ routines internally. depending on the mix of native vs scripted operations the results can go very much either way...

unfortunately there are too many complicating factors for a direct comparison, for example support code around the basic execution, like java's display classes or uf's gui rendering code.


* if it's actually compiled to machine code then it boils down to the efficiency of said compiler versus java's ridiculously conservative/safe execution (eg array bounds checking etc).
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David Makin
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« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2006, 11:40:30 PM »

It could be also be much faster than that Processing Java code.

hmm, that's an interesting question... on the one hand, i wouldn't really expect uf to be that much faster than java since most java implementations have just-in-time compilation, which has been tuned for a number of years and i suspect uf's scripting is interpreted*; on the other hand i'll bet uf has built in functions for dealing with complex numbers and quaternions (which will be a real boon for you given what i said in your cubic/quintic mandelbrot set thread), which will use fast c/c++ routines internally. depending on the mix of native vs scripted operations the results can go very much either way...

unfortunately there are too many complicating factors for a direct comparison, for example support code around the basic execution, like java's display classes or uf's gui rendering code.


* if it's actually compiled to machine code then it boils down to the efficiency of said compiler versus java's ridiculously conservative/safe execution (eg array bounds checking etc).

I think UF compiles rather than interprets (a really long formula takes a while to load when selected) - maybe Kerry or Frederik himself will confirm this. I think it's multi-level compilation in that any parameter changes are allowed for in the way the code is compiled.
Also the main speed up is for investigation of new ideas rather than final generation time - most of the background work is already done when writing formulas for UF (or ChaosPro).
The only real bugbear for me is that UF was originally designed with 2D escape-time fractals in mind so writing efficient 3D or IFS code is not straightforward - I'm hoping a future release will allow a mode giving user formulas direct access to the screen.
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David Makin
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« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2006, 11:52:16 PM »


Hi David,

I think i should stop to try to program stuff in Processing,  instead to move to do something with Ultra Fractal!

It could be also be much faster than that Processing Java code.

Is it also possible to bring UF to save frames of any (modification) layer ?

To explain it further... my code reveals the body of the 3dfractal as slices of "onion rings", every slice is saved
to HD, for later composition.

It goes from the very outerior ( Infinity ), through the chaos wrinkles ( The frontier between chaos and order )  to the core ( The (M)-Set ).

e.g can this be done within UF ?


Greetings,

Marco Vernaglione


If you're asking what I think you are then yes you could do that.
Any formula/rendering method can now be written using UF so you could write your own UF formula for this.
Or (if you mean what I think you mean) you can use my "Solid-3D" formulas from mmf.ufm - these allow you to cut a 3D fractal to up to 6 rectangular planes and/or to a sphere plus you can colour the fractal using lighting or using any "inside" colouring method.
If you mean rendering successive images closer to the "inside" then you can of course do that too.
If you want to know how to code a more optimum 3D algorithm for UF than my "Solid-3D" ones let me know as that's what I'm working on when I get chance - it's already massively faster but lacks the bells and whistles such as full phong shading, shadows and the option to use any UF colourings.

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lycium
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« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2006, 12:15:30 AM »

bells and whistles such as full phong shading, shadows and the option to use any UF colourings.

forgive my nitpicking-aside, but the phong model is easily the worst brdf ever invented and is entirely responsible for the bulk of all povray renders looking as 1980's as they do wink
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David Makin
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« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2006, 02:19:04 AM »

bells and whistles such as full phong shading, shadows and the option to use any UF colourings.

forgive my nitpicking-aside, but the phong model is easily the worst brdf ever invented and is entirely responsible for the bulk of all povray renders looking as 1980's as they do wink

I'm not well up on recent lighting algorithms - I got the models I use from "Computer Graphics - Principles and Practice" by Foley/Van Dam/Feiner/Hughes - if there's a better model that's as fast as doing phong as described in there then please just point me at it smiley

Of course in Ultrafractal the default colouring method is tied to the use of a user adjustable palette, so you can usually make up for any shortcomings in the phong model by adjusting the palette accordingly, personally I think the combination works quite well:



Full-size: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/29678693/
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 12:52:36 PM by David Makin » Logged

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