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Author Topic: Kalles Fraktaler 2  (Read 37221 times)
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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 06:35:03 PM »

It might be that your desktop pc doesn't have msvc60.dll or something like that in the system directories, which used to be included by default since w2k. However it should generate an error message saying so if it is due to missing libraries. I will compile a 64-bit version later that also hopefully will be faster
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Dinkydau
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 07:16:59 PM »

Neither my desktop nor my laptop have that dll file. I do have various msvcp
  • .dll files including msvcp60.dll. I have extracted the following information from the file:
Code:
1 VERSIONINFO
FILEVERSION 7,0,7600,16385
PRODUCTVERSION 6,1,8638,16385
FILEOS 0x40004
FILETYPE 0x1
{
BLOCK "StringFileInfo"
{
BLOCK "040904B0"
{
VALUE "CompanyName", "Microsoft Corporation"
VALUE "FileDescription", "Windows NT C++ Runtime Library DLL"
VALUE "FileVersion", "7.0.7600.16385 (win7_rtm.090713-1255)"
VALUE "InternalName", "msvcp60.dll"
VALUE "LegalCopyright", "ę Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved."
VALUE "OriginalFilename", "msvcp60.dll"
VALUE "ProductName", "Microsoft« Windows« Operating System"
VALUE "ProductVersion", "7.0.7600.16385"
}
}

BLOCK "VarFileInfo"
{
VALUE "Translation", 0x0409 0x04B0
}
}

When fraktal_sft.exe crashes, I get the following entry in the event viewer

Code:
Faulting application name: fraktal_sft.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x51c83287
Faulting module name: fraktal_sft.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x51c83287
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x0001dd57
Faulting process id: 0x1ddc
Faulting application start time: 0x01ce70fc5473f558
Faulting application path: D:\fraktal_sft\fraktal_sft.exe
Faulting module path: D:\fraktal_sft\fraktal_sft.exe
Report Id: 9484eea9-dcef-11e2-8c81-bcaec54850d9

I don't know if it's useful, just posting it. I also installed the full version of .net framework 4.5 which didn't help.
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Kalles Fraktaler
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kallesfraktaler
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2013, 07:42:05 PM »

No I don't understand those error dumps. I do C++ so .net is not applicable. I have now added a 64-bit version to my site, hope it works without problem.
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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 07:45:28 PM »

There might also be a permission issue in win7 that makes the program crash:
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/cb8a6fd1-9cc6-4c14-9f0d-e280a1acb02d/exception-code-0xc0000005
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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 12:31:02 PM »

can you include some nice deep zoom locations ?
I've added a "Gallery" zip file with some parameter files and jpeg images, to my site http://biphome.spray.se/karl.runmo/fraktal2.htm
Most of the images are from Dinkydau's locations, I hope he don't mind.
The location "flora-fantasy" is special since it requires zooming a bit further, select "Reuse reference" and then zoom back in order to get rid of the pertubation glitches and make it look like the included jpeg image.

There is also a zoom to e600, which takes about 15sec to render on my machine with the default window size, 640x360.
And a zoom to e601, which takes about 60sec to render with the same window size, which is about 4 times slower.
This shows the border between ordinary double and my own datatype.
I hope that 60 sec is still much faster than what the old programs (fractal extreme) perform?

I have also included a file with e1000  shocked
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 12:33:19 PM by Kalles Fraktaler » Logged

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Dinkydau
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 01:40:11 AM »

The speed at which it renders "tick tock" and "integral of..." is really good, but the render time certainly does still depend a lot on iterations/depth. I inserted coordinates of the minibrot that I posted in this thread:
http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbrot-and-julia-set/smallest-midget/15/
It's at a depth of E892. Renders really, really slowly... I don't think I will approach the limit of e20000 anytime soon.
Maybe a bug: I'm currently rendering this location, but it doesn't show progress here. It doesn't even keep the time, but it still renders.

User friendlyness could be greatly improved by making the program render pixels in the center first, then go outward. It makes zooming much easier. I see it already makes an approximation first by rendering one out of x pixels, and then the rest. If you add more stages, such as a very rough approximation first, and then more and more refined, makes it even easier. Maybe the limit of e20000 could be extended. cheesy
(Or, I could say: imitate how the zooming fractal extreme works, I really think it's the ideal method.)

Question: on the bottom of the program there's that line with:
x%,R:y%,G:z%
x is progress of the entire render, y is progress of calculating the reference point, z is percentage of guessed pixels?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 01:48:47 AM by Dinkydau » Logged

Kalles Fraktaler
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kallesfraktaler
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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2013, 10:03:26 AM »

Yes it is still dependent of the number of iterations. How many iterations are there in the e892 location?
I have unfortunately no idea of how to render from center and out currently.
Yes the percentages is what you wrote.
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blob
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 12:01:31 PM »

Thanks for fixing the window resize bug, working fine now.

The max iteration issue I often encounter remains however, using F5 helps a bit sometimes but most often it does not and renders are insufficiently detailed in places, generally at the center. Basically it seems that the program determines automatically the maximum amount of iterations it performs which often is not enough to render a fully detailed image, and this of course when the absolute max number of allowed iterations has been set manually to a much higher value. Is there something you could do about that such as allowing to override its automatic amount of iteration choice and force it to perform more of them?

I understand that zooming further in, using the reuse reference command and zoom back out is what should be done in those cases (is this correct), but often several zooms are necessary before more iterations are performed and zooming out appears quite glitchy/buggy here, so it doesn't work too well.

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Dinkydau
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Posts: 1616



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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 02:50:02 PM »

Yes it is still dependent of the number of iterations. How many iterations are there in the e892 location?
I have unfortunately no idea of how to render from center and out currently.
Yes the percentages is what you wrote.
I had the max iterations set to 1 400 000 iterations.

I wanted to test the zoom limit of the program by zooming very far into (-2 ; 0i), so I entered these coordinates and a zoom level of 10E3000. The result was the whole screen filled with the same color. I thought it may be a problem with the reference point, so I tried 10E1000, didn't work, and then 10E20, but that also didn't work. So I started zooming manually to see where it would go wrong, and it did not go wrong at all zooming manually. I set the coordinates and zoom level to (-2 ; 0i) and 10E20 and I got the screen filled with a single color again. This time I tried to zoom out and see from where on it would begin to be normal. The program crashed. So apparently when you insert the coordinates (-2 ; 0i) and some zoom level, not even deep, the program just stops working correctly.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 02:57:21 PM by Dinkydau » Logged

Kalles Fraktaler
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Posts: 1458



kallesfraktaler
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 03:36:18 PM »

Thanks for fixing the window resize bug, working fine now.

The max iteration issue I often encounter remains however, using F5 helps a bit sometimes but most often it does not and renders are insufficiently detailed in places, generally at the center. Basically it seems that the program determines automatically the maximum amount of iterations it performs which often is not enough to render a fully detailed image, and this of course when the absolute max number of allowed iterations has been set manually to a much higher value. Is there something you could do about that such as allowing to override its automatic amount of iteration choice and force it to perform more of them?

I understand that zooming further in, using the reuse reference command and zoom back out is what should be done in those cases (is this correct), but often several zooms are necessary before more iterations are performed and zooming out appears quite glitchy/buggy here, so it doesn't work too well.


It's not a bug, it's a feature wink
My program does not try to figure out where the best reference point is, it is only trying to render as fast as possible, also beyond the e308 and e616 boundaries. One have to understand the behavior of the pertubation rendering with reference points, and use the program with this in mind. So I am sorry, my program is not easily accessible and is not a candidate for replacing fractal extreme and others when it comes to the user experience in finding nice locations, and there are certainly many location not accessible in this program, that are accessible in fx and others.
However with it locations not accessible with other programs can be found, at depths never visited before! smiley

I had the max iterations set to 1 400 000 iterations.
Your E892 location is a nasty one, and I will have to look into it in detail. I had it half rendered in 1,5 hour, however it seems to stop in the middle without reason. Maybe something is crashing. How long does it take to render it in fx?
I wanted to test the zoom limit of the program by zooming very far into (-2 ; 0i), so I entered these coordinates and a zoom level of 10E3000. The result was the whole screen filled with the same color. I thought it may be a problem with the reference point, so I tried 10E1000, didn't work, and then 10E20, but that also didn't work. So I started zooming manually to see where it would go wrong, and it did not go wrong at all zooming manually. I set the coordinates and zoom level to (-2 ; 0i) and 10E20 and I got the screen filled with a single color again. This time I tried to zoom out and see from where on it would begin to be normal. The program crashed. So apparently when you insert the coordinates (-2 ; 0i) and some zoom level, not even deep, the program just stops working correctly.
What an excellent way of testing the depth limit! I just tried that and it worked without problem. Maybe you need to restart the program and try again.
I could just type in -2, 0, 1E10000, then use the automatic Find Minbrot and let it run over night, and then create an E20000 movie. But that would be a very boring move.
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 03:38:04 PM »

i would be interested in concrete speed comparisons... smiley
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divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2013, 05:25:49 PM »

It's not a bug, it's a feature wink
My program does not try to figure out where the best reference point is, it is only trying to render as fast as possible, also beyond the e308 and e616 boundaries. One have to understand the behavior of the pertubation rendering with reference points, and use the program with this in mind. So I am sorry, my program is not easily accessible and is not a candidate for replacing fractal extreme and others when it comes to the user experience in finding nice locations, and there are certainly many location not accessible in this program, that are accessible in fx and others.
However with it locations not accessible with other programs can be found, at depths never visited before! smiley
I don't encounter that issue using SFT, or at least very considerably less, so what you're saying doesn't make that much sense to me, I am sure there is room for improvement in your implementation in that respect.

Will you be implementing the antialiasing algos there is an SFT too?

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Kalles Fraktaler
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kallesfraktaler
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2013, 08:22:14 PM »

I don't encounter that issue using SFT, or at least very considerably less, so what you're saying doesn't make that much sense to me, I am sure there is room for improvement in your implementation in that respect.

Will you be implementing the antialiasing algos there is an SFT too?


Yes there is always room for improvements. But my first goal was to be able to make a new depth record and that I did wink
http://www.fractalforums.com/images-showcase-(rate-my-fractal)/deep/
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:30:44 PM by Kalles Fraktaler » Logged

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Dinkydau
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2013, 08:26:11 PM »

Your E892 location is a nasty one, and I will have to look into it in detail. I had it half rendered in 1,5 hour, however it seems to stop in the middle without reason. Maybe something is crashing. How long does it take to render it in fx?What an excellent way of testing the depth limit! I just tried that and it worked without problem. Maybe you need to restart the program and try again.
I could just type in -2, 0, 1E10000, then use the automatic Find Minbrot and let it run over night, and then create an E20000 movie. But that would be a very boring move.
Your program is definitely faster. A 1280Î800 render of almost the same minibrot at a slightly greater depth (E914) took fractal extreme 15h 45m on my desktop computer. My laptop would have finished the default resolution render of the E892 minibrot in maybe 1,5 hours, but that's an estimate. A speed comparison is still a good idea:
i would be interested in concrete speed comparisons... smiley
Because I cannot use Kalles fraktaler on my desktop and I cannot use a very deep location in SuperFractalThing, and I know all of them work well with Tick Tock, let's use that to test the speed. I'm going to test right now.
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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2013, 08:59:39 PM »

Because I cannot use Kalles fraktaler on my desktop
Since I haven't made any installation file that puts the program in the folder "program files" you need to run it as administrator or in xp-mode in win7.
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