Logo by bib - Contribute your own Logo!

END OF AN ERA, FRACTALFORUMS.COM IS CONTINUED ON FRACTALFORUMS.ORG

it was a great time but no longer maintainable by c.Kleinhuis contact him for any data retrieval,
thanks and see you perhaps in 10 years again

this forum will stay online for reference
News: Visit the official fractalforums.com Youtube Channel
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. April 19, 2024, 04:50:05 AM


Login with username, password and session length


The All New FractalForums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Share this topic on DiggShare this topic on FacebookShare this topic on GoogleShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on StumbleUponShare this topic on Twitter
Author Topic: Proving that Pascal's triangle has a Fractal Structure  (Read 2210 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PhillyWilliams
Guest
« on: September 14, 2011, 05:38:53 PM »

I mentioned this on another post, but if you make Pascal's triangle all mod 2, you end up with Sierpinski's triangle, which is pretty surprising and amazing, but.... Is there a way to prove that Pascal's triangle must have a fractal structure much like Sierpinski's?

My thinking is that there's an intractable hurdle with this problem: the most common way of thinking about/constructing the standard Sierpinski triangle is by starting with an equilateral triangle, then iterating "down" towards the ultimate fractal, whereas Pascal's triangle starts with a single number and works "up" towards the ultimate fractal.  The two approaches, in some sense, are on opposite sides of infinity, which definitely causes problems.

I guess my question is: is there a line between "noticing" that a pattern exists and actually proving that the pattern must exist?  If no, how do we cross that line?
Logged
fractower
Iterator
*
Posts: 173


« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 09:27:08 PM »

I think I have a proof.

Instead of starting with a single one, start with a 1 in the middle of a line of zeros and consider a finite response to the isolated 1.

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0

Notice how on the 4th step we end up with 4 ones and on the 5th step we end up with two ones seperatd by 4-1 zeros. Because these ones are isolated they will not interact for an additional 3 steps. So the response of these 1s will exactly match initial 1. At step 8 we will have 8 and at step 9 we are back to having 2 isolated 1s seperated by 8-1 zeros. Repeating the previous logic, the response of these ones will exactly match the response of the starting 1.

The final step is to apply induction to the 2^Nth step.
Logged
fractower
Iterator
*
Posts: 173


« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 09:38:05 PM »

OOPS. I think I just proved what you already know.
Logged
PhillyWilliams
Guest
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 02:17:42 PM »

(sorry for taking forever to respond -- with school started, there've been lots of distractors)

Yes, I knew that, but I think that's definitely a great way to prove it!  Considering the Sierpinski triangle created by Pascal's as a construction of ``smaller" triangles gets directly to the self-similarity of the fractal -- in other words, depending on what definition for a fractal you use, you can definitely satisfy a major condition that way.  Granted, it's not till you zoom WAY out that Pascal's triangle starts to technically become a fractal, but the goal here was to prove that its structure is fractal, which your proof, by aiming at self-similarity, hits the nail on the head. 

I think....

Thanks!
Logged
fractower
Iterator
*
Posts: 173


« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 03:12:50 PM »

Most fractals we are use to thinking about have a finite size but infinite microscopic detail. The Sierpinski you found in Pascal's triangle has finite microscope detail but infinite size. I think that means that one has infinitely more fractal cred or they are equal.  cheesy
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Fractal large-scale structure from a stochastic scaling law model General Discussion Nahee_Enterprises 0 2693 Last post April 22, 2009, 08:38:36 AM
by Nahee_Enterprises
Making a large fractal terrain using a grid structure. Help & Support « 1 2 » igloomedia 29 4716 Last post November 14, 2010, 09:10:06 PM
by igloomedia
The Fractal Structure of Trafassels Heart Gestaltlupe Gallery trafassel 0 897 Last post February 03, 2013, 02:55:59 PM
by trafassel
Conformally converting a square to a torus requires a fractal structure Fractal News across the World msltoe 0 1755 Last post December 27, 2013, 08:15:29 PM
by msltoe
nVidia Pascal GPU General Discussion M Benesi 8 1922 Last post April 08, 2016, 01:46:28 PM
by Chillheimer

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Page created in 0.145 seconds with 25 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.006s, 2q)