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Author Topic: A fractal way of making sense of our experiences. Please contribute!  (Read 37613 times)
Description: Notions, insights, methods of knowing, paradigms and procedures.
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jehovajah
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« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2013, 09:14:03 PM »

This section in the Metaphysics is of particular interest.

Any comments?
This section is of interest, assuming it is an accurate apprehension of the Greek.
"
        It is not as easy as it may at first seem to argue that the universe could include an infinite regress of causes.  But let the point be conceded for the sake of discussion.  Aquinas did not commit the fallacy of circular argument, for he drew from a principle best stated in  Book II, Chapter 2 of the Metaphysics, where Aristotle said,   
 
 
 
 
      "In any series of causes, we must have a first cause, then one or more intermediate  causes, then the last term. If we had to say which of these three terms is the real cause of the whole, we should say that it is the first cause, for the last term is as yet the cause of nothing, nor can it be said that the whole is produced by the intermediate cause or causes. It does not matter whether there be only one or more than one intermediate cause, nor even whether there be a finite or infinite number of intermediate causes.  For even if the series included an infinite number of causes, all causes down to the present moment would be only intermediate causes which would still need a first cause, so that, if there were no first cause, there would be no causes at all."       
"
there are certain value judgements and presentation structures that I do not assent to and I will discuss how.


I have found a Greek source text and will examine it in the Greek, but I would welcome any opinions especially if you have read Aristotle which I have not.

I don't feel I can form my opinion until I do.
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« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2013, 10:57:29 PM »

I've read my share of Aristotle, and was surprised by the sheer number of wild assumptions he made without ever testing them for accuracy.  Everything from the number of teeth women had  (all he had to do was count 'em fer gawrsh sakes!) to spontaneous generation of mice in piles of unwashed laundry  (yes, he believed the laundry to Cause the mice to appear from nothing!).

I was much more impressed with my namesake, Socrates  (even if he spelled it funny).

But as for his "Cause" thingy you quoted - consider a circle  (This may or may not be circular reasoning, but it's the first idea that came to mind). Assume each point on the circle to cause the next point  (no more far-fetched a concept than the assumption that the universe cannot contain an infinite regression of causes).  So your starting point causes the next, and so on.  But once you complete the circle and continue on...  well, the idea of first causes becomes ambiguous.

The chosen starting point originally appeared to be a First Cause  (Prime Mover), but once the "Eternity" of the circle was completed it became apparent that it was no such thing at all.

To expand this analogy to our universe, it's first cause may not be understood until it has "run it's course" and then our perspective changes.

It comes back to the idea of being limited by our very existence within this universe and the only way to truly understand it is to escape it and view it from another frame of reference.

That's why I call all attempts to define such things Doo-Doo.  Whatever caused this universe will never be understood from within it's confines  (similar to Godel's incompleteness concept - it will always prove insufficient to make any such effort).

That is not to say such efforts have no value, just that placing any more worth to them than their amusement quotient is folly.
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« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2013, 12:52:51 AM »

Thanks Sockratease.

I am sympathetic to your presentation and example. I am aware of the unempirical notions of some of our revered forefathers! The circle or sphere is precisely the point. I can not determine a first cause except by fiat. It is most likely by exhaustion, really. Not by removing all alternatives but by losing the will to continue endlessly uncovering so called causes.

Whrn I learned of the fractal zoom it immediately suggested a terminologically appropriate container in which I could wrap this endless experience and yet talk about it precisely and identifiably.

I too value Socrates and Pato's presentation of the Pythgorean school of thought, and sense Aristotle was a diversion from this line of philosophy . Nevertheless I owe his work a little consideration in order to better understand Newtons's derived concept of motive..

Also, this is a consideration of everyday cause and effect. Philosophically we can never know an absolute cause of anything, even voluntary actions.

Chinese philosophy holds Yin and Yang as the structure of cause and fortune.
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« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2013, 10:52:36 PM »

Thanks Sockratease.

I am sympathetic to your presentation and example. I am aware of the unempirical notions of some of our revered forefathers! The circle or sphere is precisely the point. I can not determine a first cause except by fiat. It is most likely by exhaustion, really. Not by removing all alternatives but by losing the will to continue endlessly uncovering so called causes.

Whrn I learned of the fractal zoom it immediately suggested a terminologically container in which I could wrap this tend less experience and yet talk about it precisely and identifiably.

I too value Socrates and Patos presentation of the Pythgorean school of thought, and sense Aristotle was a diversion from this lie of philosophy . Nevertheless I owe his work a little consideration in order to better understand Newtons's derived concept of motive..

Also, this is a consideration of everyday cause nd effect. Philosophically we can never know an absolute cause of anything, even voluntary actions.

Chinese philosophy holds Yin and Yang as the structure of cause and fortune.

Yeah, I guess Logical Positivism would be the closest "School Of Thought" I can claim an affinity to  (without fully embracing, as I find it difficult to fully embrace any school of thought I was exposed to while stumbling my way to a Philosophy Degree)  (I may be the only person to ever Accidentally get a Philosophy Degree! - I was taking Philosophy as electives and bouncing from major to major before settling into Chemistry, when one semester I went to look for another Phi elective, and found that I had taken them all and got an A in every one...  so I just said "Gimme the degree" and that was that).

But my thing for Socky wasn't his presentation of the Pythagorean ideas, but more his "Socratic Method" which I still tend to use in most discussions and debates.  

Plus, I am still rather tickled by the notion that nobody really knows if Socrates ever really existed or not.  Some say he was just Plato's "character" used to get ideas across.

As for Ultimate Causes, I do believe that there must have been a First Cause, but I just don't think we can make any meaningful assertions as to it's nature.  I simply accept that it's a limitation of our existence and try to make do with the rest of the stuff in the universe...
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« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2013, 02:14:11 AM »

 rolling on floor laughing
It tickles me too! And I love your way of getting a philosophy degree!
I know something of what you mean about our limitations. For some reason some do not want to acknowledge that means of communication can only go so far, and that by consent.
 I decide, as it were, to believe an impossible thing every so often, just for the Socratic Platonic conundrum!
Recognising the limitations of analysis, and so philosophical enquiry Socrates decides to play a game , or Plato decides to make a game. The theory of Forms or Ideas is like one of those character games. You chose which kind or kinds of reality you want to live in, and then you play the game of life.

Unfortunately some play to win, and that means coercion of others. Some do not know they have a choice within the game and they tend to limit their own opportunities. Some invent their own worlds, like Aristotle, and they are either hailed as geniuses or imprisoned in lunatic asylums .

I guess Socrates wanted to see what the outcome was for those who chose one reality. Or Plato preached a powerful utopian positivism based on accepting these ideals as real.
I see it as a free choice, especially when everything else seems to be heavily or unconsciously deterministic.

Somedays I will assent to a first cause, other days I assent to an endless recursive cause, a fractal zoom of analysis of preceding iterative status. Just depends on how tired I am!
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« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2013, 08:24:17 AM »

I certainly embed consciousness in my concept of space, but at the level of a sensitivity to an environment. It seems to me that analysis of consciousness , at the extreme end of analysis, frays into this generalised notion, which is fractal. One fractal region acts on and reacts to all fractal regions in its immediate neighbourhood.

I recolgnise this is very akin to Newton's third law of motion of bodies, but in fact I now understand that Aristotle considered all kinds of motion in causal relationships. I know Newton admired Aristotle and I see his concepts in the Newtonian concept of Motive.

The Newtonian concept of Motive underpins all his ideas of accelerations. What I believe Newton did was to reduce the agency of gods, spirits and djin, daemonia and demiurge into a abstract concept he called motive. In so doing he squeezed the natural conscious intelligence of these entities into a physical measure called acceleration!

Of course modern scientists are hardly aware of Newton's Principia let alone his metaphysics. I still have to go to a historian of classical thought or classical science to apprehend what Newton had actually done to the intellectual discussions of his time. If only because it allowed him to measure and calculate so much more than his fellows, his view was set to become dominant in a technological age.

He is rightly respected in my view, but he was no saint! He attempted to bury Hookes work. This is usually described as a vengeful act, but it now comes to light, that Hooke was no mean philosopher himself, and in fact as a scientist substantiated all his claims with powerful demonstrations. Hooke above all could demonstrate the " wave" nature of light by his micrographical studies. One wonders if Newton recognised this falsified his optics and thus got rid of the evidence.

Hooke it appears had read Grimaldis treatise on Diffraction, something Newton had not had opportunity to read when formulating his Optics.

However, my point is, we use Newtonian ideas everyday now as part of our fractal reality. Newton was not afraid to think fractally about everything, and his method of Fluxions is his highest accomplishment in fractal thinking.
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« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2014, 01:38:14 AM »

It suddenly dawned on me that Bruce Lipton has a fractal message relevant to this thread.

Hopefully it wii stimulate some discussion.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qy29WIZxUOU&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/qy29WIZxUOU&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
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« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2014, 12:09:50 PM »

So now to Hegel!  wink
I guess that now I have come across Hegels philosophy in particular Hermann Grassmanns version and application of it I should discuss its relevance here in detail.

It's funny to me that I have avoided Aristotle despite his absolutely massive influence on Islamic and Western philosophical and Scientific thought: Newton, Hamilton and Hegel as well as Kant use him as a jumping off point. If it were not for Hegel I probably would still avoid him as a digression from the Pythagorean school of thought and philosophy. But Hegel invites these contradicting or contradictory positions, and that interests me a lot.

However I will approach Aristotle via Hegels treatment of him and thus in passing, because really it is Hermann Grassmanns use of Hegel that I feel is most relevant to this forum. Grassmanns use is sufficiently distinct to attract the label Grassmann Philosophy. This is a quintessential Fractal philosophy in my opinion.
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« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2014, 12:30:19 PM »

Chadafrican and Gregory B Sadler are my recommended commentators on Hegel.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cqCzWP6hWio&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/cqCzWP6hWio&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cqCzWP6hWio&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/cqCzWP6hWio&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
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« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2014, 12:40:22 PM »

Chadafrican Encyclopedia of Logic

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6L6zndZs8Js&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6L6zndZs8Js&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6L6zndZs8Js&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6L6zndZs8Js&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
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« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2014, 12:44:04 PM »

Chadafricans Phenomenology of Geist

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/RNOrAi&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/RNOrAi&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/RNOrAi_QCs4&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/RNOrAi_QCs4&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
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May a trochoid of ¥h¶h iteratively entrain your Logos Response transforming into iridescent fractals of orgasmic delight and joy, with kindness, peace and gratitude at all scales within your experience. I beg of you to enrich others as you have been enriched, in vorticose pulsations of extravagance!
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« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2014, 12:57:09 PM »

Carlton Heston narrating on Hegel

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jr4jOsAmcYg&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Jr4jOsAmcYg&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
There are 2 videos so look for the other on LordXenus channel.

Also listen to the 2 on Ariztotle.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oLREMBw6uJg&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oLREMBw6uJg&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oLREMBw6uJg&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oLREMBw6uJg&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
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« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2014, 07:36:25 PM »

The problem arose in pplynomial geometry. The solution to a cubic involved using a polynomial that had a negative square root!  What could that mean beyond drunken and licentious nonsense, for which Cardano was well known.

However Bombelli was a respected engineer  and he soon drew attention to the algebraic rules of these adjugate magnitudes and their conjugate relations. Despite his brilliant work, Descartes was the one to scoffingly rename them as imaginary, reducing Bombelli and bigging up his own intellect, which to be fair was quite big!

However Newton knew a thing or two about these magnitudes, secrets that he shared only with DeMpivre and Cotes. These two created the theory of the roots of unity!

It was Newton  DeMoivre and Cotes together who advanced the study of multinomial geometry and buried in that was the theory of trigonometric roots, this was a great secret that Newton and De Moivre shared with Cotes Who on learning it solved the rhumb line problem and went on to extend a theorem of DeMoivre regarding powers of trig ratios with a conjugate form . Using this he uncovered the Cotes Euler formula for Napierian logarithms . He was ecstatic because he felt sure it was the key to gravity . But he died before he could explain . However in his work on the integrals of arcs he stated that i was a measure of the quantity of arc

The negative numbers were received with rancour . To add insult to injury the imaginary numbers were proposed to solve polynomial geometric problems . It seemed a step too far and imaginary magnitudes became a mathematical scorn in Britain in particular. On the continent Cauchy and Argand studied them with all seriousness making steady headway with niche applications . Gauss had given them considerable thought but was doubtful of the impact on his reputation. Wessel published a ground breaking study showing how the imaginary numbers had a 1 to 1 correspondence with directions and so were undeniably really useful magnitudes for surveyors .  Gauss who has been surveying Prussia for the emperor immediately understood their validity and published his work reticent about the metaphysics of these magnitudes.

At this time Euler was challenged to define the logarithm of a negative number by his Mentor one of the Bernoulli's who was engaged in a long and vitriolic correspondence with Cauchy over the logarithmic curve. Eulers careful redaction of Integral calculus and Differential calculus not only established the modern approach to calculus, it also took it into new applications, particularly the calculation of arc lengths. In setting that up he rediscovered Cotes formula but in the exponential form. Thus he confirmed that I was a magnitude of arc length, but not as explicitly as Cotes had stated. However his derivation was algebraic and undeniable . He had established once again the imaginaries as really important magnitudes.

The studies of Cauchy Argand , Gauss and Euler were absorbed by LaGrange and LaPlace who took them to places others would not go.

In Britain Hamilton and his friend studied and were impressed by the words of LaGrange and vowed to set algebra on the sound footing of the doctrine(mathesis) of the imaginaries. For this ambition they were lampooned and vilified from one end of the British empire to the other, and were it not for Hamiltons other important works to science he would have been buried in the dung pile of History's crazies.

But the other student of LaGrange faired no better. Grassmann was buried by circumstance and geopolitical instability in the mire of the 100 years wars in Europe. Nobody wanted to read philosophy when scientific and technological revolution was producing so much power and wealth. Gauss certainly did not want to invest time in correcting mathematics which was clearly in trouble. Instead he asked Riemann to take on the task, some 9 years after critiquing a draft of Hermanns manuscripts. He probably even forgot he had read them, or who had written them, favouring his own protogé within the academic system.

But as far as I know Hermann is the only man to state clearly and unequivocally that the imaginary magnitudes are magnitudes of arc, besides Sir Roger Cotes.

What we have just toured through is the historical dialectic process which has eventually in this year 2009 to 2014 led to the unequivocal notion that i is a magnitude of quarter rotation of the unit circle, a quarter arc magnitude. Thus the Hegelian philosophical method and analysis is found to be powerfully vindicated in this matter.
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« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2014, 10:34:49 PM »

An informed critique of Hegels philosophy of history and such as given in his lectures
http://youtu.be/iTAb64QtzdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTAb64QtzdQ

However he does review Hegels method of analysis and synthesis, not only Hegels shortcomings which are to be expected even from the viewpoint of the philosophy.

He adopts an Aristotelian logic to criticise Hegels logic but describes Hegels logic of categories inaccurately. Ultimately Hegels argument leads to an apprehension of the whole but particular characteristics only ever give a partial truth. While a statement may be true it is not the whole truth. Knowing the whole truth allows the dialectical adjustment of ones understanding, but an Aristotelian would present this as the premise from which to deduce all knowledge! The dialectic does not lead to a first cause, but rather to an infinite regress of greater apprehension of the whole as cause.

Clearly one cannot know the whole and deduce therefrom because one would then be the absolute whole. So in adopting the pretense of absolutes one fails to recognise the truth.

Yes Hegel shows his failings but he des so against the backsrop of the clear power of his own identified method.thus he expects to be challenged and to be dialectically improved.

In addition the reader should be aware of the ad Hominem logic employed in critiquing which is part of the standard toolset of logicians including Hegel . The whole contains some very unpleasant aspects to be sure.so while generally one may subscribe to being nice one hides ones wholesale support of the slaughter of animals and the cutting down of harvests to supply the food chain in which one participates.
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« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2014, 11:46:28 AM »

Clear thinking in a confused age!

http://youtu.be/mR1SLQwHDog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR1SLQwHDog

The Hegelian philosophy corrects the Consequences of the Aristotelian methodology.
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