A fractal way of making sense of our experiences. Please contribute!

[jehovajah]

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/mm/
Our philosophy and our insights as fractalists are more crucial than ever. Recently I have begun to experiment with Marko Rodin vortex 9 group. This I have determined will be mapped out under the vortex18 group or rather both are rings in current mathematical terminology.

These rings have to do with everyday life and everyday reality so can we spot patterns of 9 in our experiences. For  example, do things happen in 3's?

[jehovajah]

I forget what i have posted sometimes!

The Electric Universe/ Plasma Universe is a fundamental movement in science to redefine the scientific understanding of Astronomy, and this pans down to every technology we use today eventually, and into biology.

The fractal foundation of mathematics is not immune to its impact, as my recent blogs show.(google: jehovajah shunya)

What this means to me is that humanly speaking, before religion, before even Mythology empirical observations were a significant human response to space and spatial awareness. This has to reflect the fundamental fractalisation of our experiences that we iteratively and sequentially arrive at through our processing reactions.

The mythologising of these empirical fractals is a mnemonic device for storing the experience in human collective memory for transmission through the generations.
My point is that we can create these original fractals and initiate the mythologies that are passed down

As an example of this, the Mandelbrot set in its iconic form is such a fractal. Long after the mathematical details of the set may be forgotten the dynamic detailed image will not.

[jehovajah]

Jos Leys!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/x4aJvNA-2ZU&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/x4aJvNA-2ZU&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>

This is part of a new series of instructional videos by Jos. Fantastic presentation. Worth studying.

But i have a problem with it. It is not radical enough because it does not acknowledge the Fractal paradigm from the outset. He starts from the Chaos paradigm. This chaos paradigm is now not so radical as it once appeared to be, and yet it is only now that it is being put in its rightful position in mathematical modeling.

As usual the rabbit hole goes deeper, and the source is fractal not differential!

Empirical observation encodes this fractal interaction in several representational systems so one cannot give preeminence to the visual as many "mathematicians " do. The combinatorial sequencing of these modeling  attributions resolve simply to the combination of fractal metrons/metrics in recursive or iterative identities. We can do this now because we have the cybernetic systems to compute theses complex interactions. The fractal generators that we use is some serious modeling software for what our biological processing networks do in creating our experiential continuum.

I want you to always remember that no matter how smart a "mathematical" description looks or is it is dumber than what your natural cybernetic systems deliver to you every moment of your conscious experience, and the experience is fractal!

[cKleinhuis]

one question i would like to ask is:

the ball on the wooden plane is rolling without friction ... ok, but, hey, there is friction between the board and the ball created through gravity, because the gravity comes into place after the plane has removed ... isnt the statement wrong that the ball would roll along its way all the time ?! isnt pressing the gravity the ball on the plane CREATING COME KIND OF FRICTION !?!?
this really bugged me in the video, but nice video after all...

[jehovajah]

one question i would like to ask is:

the ball on the wooden plane is rolling without friction ... ok, but, hey, there is friction between the board and the ball created through gravity, because the gravity comes into place after the plane has removed ... isnt the statement wrong that the ball would roll along its way all the time ?! isnt pressing the gravity the ball on the plane CREATING COME KIND OF FRICTION !?!?
this really bugged me in the video, but nice video after all...

I think he meant frictional drag. Balls roll through friction at the point of contact!

[jehovajah]

Have you ever thought that the several levels of "you" are a fractal? That your constructed "self" is an iterated pattern? That your "mysterious" consciousness is a recursive formulation of your everyday experiences? That habit is a many layered fractal product? That personality is a wondrous colouring algorithm?

Is your heart beat the pulse of your fundamental iterative clock cycle?

[jehovajah]

I can recommend Fractals to any young and enquiring mind. It is the one topic boundary that has no boundary we can define!

The inspiration of the very word fractal was like the buzz created by Eric De Bono's new connective "po". Suddenly everything could make fractal sense!

But Mandelbrot laconically defined fractal as having at least this one property: almost self similarity! Every spiral is almost self similar, while a circle is ubiquitously self similar.

Grassmann said "Keine Abweichung", no giving in, no yielding, no wobbling! And yet life is all about wobbling, isn't it? That is why things that appear invariant are so special, remarkable and worth passing on to the next generation.

Most of these invariant things are subjective states of mind, experiences in and of consciousness. Of these, Fractal is the pinnacle and the foundation.

[jehovajah]

Newtonian Motive has given me a greater insight into Newton, Fluid Mechanics and The fundamental connection between fractal formulas and motive laws in nature.

Mandelbrot's insightful Almost self similar, recent apprehension of the Logos Analogos logic of Eudoxus' means that i view the fractal sculptures differently. They represent fluid dynamic sculptures.

As a consequence power 2 motives and above are descriptors of turbulent fluid dynamics, while power 1 represent streamline flows in julia mode, higher powers represent pressure heads on turbulent flows, i think. In mandelbrot mode we get complex turbulent pressure dynamics

[Chillheimer]

just wanted to let you know that this thread is very close to what I have been thinking the last months. we are on the same path. It is great to find likeminded people.
I'm quite busy right now, and this topic consumes so much time, as I find it hard to get in that mindset and find a good way to convey my ideas with understandable words/analogies, as I'm by no means a scientist or mathematician.
but I needed to tell you that this thread was really exiting, gave me new ideas and that I'm looking forward to discussing and sharing thoughts with you! I'll have to comment so many things in this thread - it's a bit overwhelming..

--edit--
pictures are a fast and easy way to show where I'm coming from:
http://www.fractalforums.com/fractals-in-nature/comprehensive-collection-of-fractals-in-our-universe/
----

[jehovajah]

Hello, Chillhelmer.

You are welcome to post as the title suggests, and i will try to get back to you to discuss in a reasonable time.

Maybe you can encourage others who you discuss with to contribute.

There is a vast amount of historical and philosophical material to comment on. We have the opportunity to humbly review and redact a lot of good and bad thinking and philosophy.

Whether we will be able to set out a view for future generations , i do not know. It is a big task, but someone needs to have a go.

[jehovajah]

I am in discussion with a person who is arguing the ontological or cosmological argument Aristotle developed to conclude the existence of a prime mover.

I mentioned the alternative conclusion of a fractal as a prime mover, referring particularly to the endless zooming we find in the Mandelbrot fractal.mthis was meant to be n analogy of how our mind endlessly zooms into this question of , who made god ?

I know some do not like that question, but I think it deserves some time in our meditations.

[Sockratease]

I am in discussion with a person who is arguing the ontological or cosmological argument Aristotle developed to conclude the existence of a prime mover.

I mentioned the alternative conclusion of a fractal as a prime mover, referring particularly to the endless zooming we find in the Mandelbrot fractal.mthis was meant to be n analogy of how our mind endlessly zooms into this question of , who made god ?

I know some do not like that question, but I think it deserves some time in our meditations.

I go along with St. Augustine and his reply to the question of "What was god doing before he created the universe?"

He deemed it a meaningless question, and completely unanswerable, because the word "Before" implies the passage of time - and time is a function of the universe to which god would be immune and outside of.

I extrapolate the concept further and state that ANYTHING outside of our universe is not subject to the rules  (guidelines?)  of our universe and therefore cannot properly be addressed from within it's confines.

Once we find the way out of our universe we can begin to meaningfully address these concepts - but until then I find any considerations of things outside our universe to be pure speculation and, in the words of Our Hero, Bertrand Russell : "The idea of existence of god can no more be proven or disproven than the idea that there is a fine china tea set in orbit between Earth and Mars"

[jehovajah]

Lol! When I come across the china I will toast BR with the first cup, and call him a visionary!

The point of interest to me is that he makes the statement that such considerations are legitimate metaphysics.
As a fractalists, and a free thinker I like that assertion better than BR's.

The value judgement that seems to underlying the objection is that it is a waste of time that does not eleven exist in the subject of focus! This value judgement I allow, and I allow the opinions based on it, but what I do not allow is coercion into any particular world view or value judgement. I allow free assent as much as that is possible.

In one thread there was a conclusion I drew that within a deterministic framework of sufficient complexity freedom of choice exists. It may not be freedom to choose any or every of the infinite possibilities of choice , but it is a type of an undefined motion of free choice..

The discussion dies not go further simply because there is no one autistic or anal enough to split such hairs, for no purpose that is seemingly pragmatic, or even utilitarian. That does not mean that we have arrived at an inevitable conclusion to the train of thought. It means, thank god, that we can choose to truncate these infinite loops by a pragmatic interrupt command!

When we do that we notice that our processing in pragmatic experience avoids too many infinite loops, but not all.mthus zeno's and Parmenides paradix's have a pragmatic truncation, and the tortoise is passed easily by the Athlete, and the arrow does fly to the target.
 Similarly when we introduce cause and effect , these are pragmatic truncations of endless iterative sequences upon analysis.

Somehow does it benefit us that we have this infinite loop tendency? I think that Fractal iteration and synthesis at each iteration are the answer to this age old question. We see the structures that fractal generators produce, and we see them in a freeze frame, a truncated sequence has preceded that frame.
We make movies of many such frames and sit in amazement. It is as if we are watching our natural world experiences in some instances.

The complexity of what we produce in a video should not go unackneledged, but rather I apprehend that my experience is constructed by his pragmatic truncating process which feeds into a synthesis process to provide me with a dynamic experience of reality.

While I have not " got out of the box" the process has enlarged and enriched my view and transformed the box boundary into a potential Wada basin. Instead of feeling confined I instead feel constrained by an infinitely receding boundary.
I can speculate what is beyond that receding boundary  but in fact my best guess should be more of what leads into the boundary on a fractal analogy.
In a sense Aristotle came to the same conclusion, in that the prime movers were unmoved movers from our perspective, but from their perspective he speculates, they enjoy arn eternal blissful life of existence not at all mpecisrly ours, but described in analogous terms with proprieties caveats.

To then go on to define this as theological Truth is the biggest coercive Machiavellian propaganda ploy of the ages!

[Sockratease]

Lol! When I come across the china I will toast BR with the first cup, and call him a visionary!

The point of interest to me is that he makes the statement that such considerations are legitimate metaphysics.
As a fractalists, and a free thinker I like that assertion better than BR's.

The value judgement that seems to underlying the objection is that it is a waste of time that does not eleven exist in the subject of focus! This value judgement I allow, and I allow the opinions based on it, but what I do not allow is coercion into any particular world view or value judgement. I allow free assent as much as that is possible...

I have no issues discussing, speculating, and even believing such things if one chooses to do so.

I only take issue with drawing conclusions as if they constitute any sort of "proof" of these concepts.

Another fun concept related to this comes from another Great 20th Century Philosopher, Douglas Adams :

Oolon Kalufed's Final Proof of the Non-Existence of god - The argument goes something like this : God says "I refuse to prove I exist because Proof denies Faith, and without Faith I am nothing" - AHA! says Man, but {fill in any argument that claims to "Prove" god exists} is a dead give-away, isn't it?  It proves you exist and therefore you don't.  Q.E.D.

"Oh dear, I hadn't thought of that" says god, and promptly vanishes in a puff of Logic.

So the moral of the story is have fun debating, discussing, speculating, and all that - but don't actually draw any conclusions on this topic, because none are possible.

[jehovajah]

Possible in the sense they will exhibit in physical phenomena independent of an individual. By this I exclude the psycho somatic effects of meditation.

However I do want to include psychosomatic effects as real  benefits, or curses, of engaging in this kind of speculative enquiry. In a sense engaging with fractals in thought generate a sense of awe and beauty which I would not want to be belittled.

I am sure some fractals can screw you up too!