Chaospro questions - 3d distance and animation management

[sideshow bob]

Hi

I have a few questions on chaospro, if anyone can help me out.  I am trying to render an animated zoom/flyby of the 3d mandelbulb.

1. Is there a way to set the distance parameter intuitively?  For example, is there a function for halving the distance between the viewer and whatever surface is in the center of the view?  (Which obviously may not be the center of the bulb!)

2. Is there a way to load/edit/alter animation keyframes after they have been added to the list?  I can't figure it out!

3. Why can't I see the inside of the bulb?  Instead I seem to get a funny parallellogram shaped mesh...

Thanks in advance,

s.b.

[chaospro]

Hi,

to your questions:
1) If you could tell me what you think is an intuitive way of setting the distance parameter "intuitively", then I could implement it...until now I did not find out a better "intuitive" way as currently implemented: Using the "distance" slider you can cange the distance to 90%, i.e. move 10% closer to the object.
But I guess I know what you mean: Guess you are in front of the object, and now you want to be on its right side, same distance and you want to view at the back, so that the object flies-by at the left side...well, positioning your camera is easy: Just rotate around the viewpoint by 90 degree. This will preserve your distance to the viewpoint. But then you have to adjust your viewpoint: If you do that, ChaosPro will automatically adjust the "top" vector, which in most cases is unnatural, as it just does a vector multiplication in order to rectifice it.

2) Yes, of course: Your animation key frames are present in the "Animation" folder: Just select the key frame (using the two combo box drop downs of the toolbar). You can of course save the animation parameters (without rendering it) using the "Load" and "Save" buttons in the animation window and manually edit the parameters using the text editor and your pocket calculator. Sometimes this is the only possibility of easily achieving what one wants...

3) Inside of the bulb? Might be due to the front/back settings in the View tab of Quaternion parameters: Everything between "front" and "back" will be displayed: It is important to regularily press the "Adjust" button after an image has been rendered to make front and back fit to the current image. Saves a lot of work for ChaosPro, makes images render faster and much more accurate! If you set "front" to a value which prevents ChaosPro from seeing the frontmost part of the Mandelbulb, then it has no chance rendering it :-) It will render the inside.

Best regards,
Martin

[sideshow bob]

Hi Martin, thanks very much for your reply!

On point 2, I had missed that feature, thank you.

On point 1 - here is a clearer explanation of what I mean.  The surface is infinitely detailed, right?  But the distance slider is relative to the viewpoint.  I would like to zoom in on the surface to a high level of detail (albeit by reducing my distance to the surface, instead of just using zoom, to get perspective effects).  With the viewpoint set to 0,0,0 this is not possible as I will soon fly through the surface by mistake.  Is there a way to set the view point to be a point (approximately!) on the the current surface in the center of the display?

On point 3, The adjust button didn't help.  I started with a mandelbulb, dragged the distance slider down a few times, got a funny render (all horizontal lines evenly spaced in this case).  Pressed adjust but no change still.

Best regards (and thanks for making a great piece of free software),

Crispin

[chaospro]

Hi Crispin,

Regarding 3) Hm, well, I think an example would be best...should be possible...Could you copy&paste a parameter set here? And then explain what you want to achieve?

Regarding 1) Ah, I see :-) Yes, there is a rather "hidden" feature in ChaosPro which I use for such cases:
See documentation "Fractal Type Reference/Quaternions/Overview":

For what you want to do it is quite easy: Hold down control key and click onto the desired point of the quaternion (must be rendered at that point so ChaosPro knows the surface point!). Then double click: ChaosPro will re-render the fractal and set the viewpoint to exactly the surface point at which you clicked, nothing else is modified. From now on you can use the distance slider as the viewpoint is set correctly.

The complete paragraph from the documentation reads as follows (might be interesting as well, explains the complete feature):

A special zoom mode exists for Quaternion:

You can set the viewpoint, the observer and the "right side" directly and then tell ChaosPro to use these values and start rendering: Hold down the Ctrl key and click onto the Quaternion with the left mouse button. The first click sets the viewpoint, the second click sets the observer and the third click sets the "right side". You cannot move around the points, but if you continously click you can set the viewpoint again, then the observer, etc.

If you want to remove all points, hold down the Ctrl key and double click with the left mouse button.

If you want to use these values, release the Ctrl key and double click with the left mouse button.

If you want to use these values, but want to look at the object from above (i.e. use the values and rotate by 90 degrees vertically), then press the Shift key and then double click with the left mouse button.

The latter is the one which I prefer most: By pointing onto the Quaternion I cannot define a point which is "above" the Quaternion. So it was implemented that way: Define three points, viewpoint, observer and where is right, and then rotate the observer by 90 degrees so he still looks at the viewpoint and still the right side is at the right side...

Kind regards,
Martin

[sideshow bob]

Regarding (1), so I should have RTFM... sorry!

Regarding (3), I have pasted the parameter file below.  All I have done is start with a default mandelbulb and reduced the distance.  I wanted to see the inside of the bulb, instead I get some horizontal lines.

Best regards
Crispin


Quaternion  {
  credits="Crispin;3/15/2010/17/28"  commentTemplate="Saved on $month\
  $, $day$ $year$ at $hour$:$min$:$sec$\nDate: $date$\nTime: $time$\n\
  Resolution: $xdots$ x $ydots$\nCalculation time: $calctime$\nVersio\
  n: $version$"
  CommentText="Saved on Mar, 15 2010 at 18:03:34\nDate: Mar 15, 2010\\
  nTime: 18:03:34\nResolution: 640 x 480\nCalculation time: 00:00:14.\
  156\nVersion: 4.0"
  creationTime=2010/3/15/17/28/7 saveTime=2010/3/15/18/3/34
  Creator="Crispin" ModifiedBy="Crispin" calcTime=14156 version=4.0
  Type=Quaternion Subtype=0 DisplayDepth=24
formula:
  filename="Quaternions.cfm" entry="Mandel3D" p_bailout=4 p_c=0/0/0/0
  p_fractaltype="Mandelbulb" p_juliaMode=0 p_n=8 maxiter=4
  highresmult=1 percheck=3
inside:
  filename="Quaternions.ccl" entry="Orbital" p_bOrbit=1 p_iternum=0
  p_frmltype1="Orbit Distance" p_frmltype2="Spherical" f_fn1=sin
  f_fn2=sin solid=0 background=0
dimensional:
  observer=0/0.57413863744125/0.52242596365139
  topview=0/-0.67301251352737/0.7396310949626
  backClippingPlane=3.5401369333267
lighting:
  light0Relative=yes
  light0Pos=1057.4078019426/451.41976862365/-1296.5100589059
  light0Ambient=0.2 light0Diffuse=0.8 light0Shiny=0.3
  light0Reflection=20 light0IntensSat=1 light0SpecularSat=0.3
  light0SpecularLum=0
gradient:
  smooth=no colormodel=CM_RGB knotmode=each dragknotmode=global
  Offset=0 knotr=(1,252) knotr=(29,252) knotr=(114,0) knotr=(198,252)
  knotr=(251,252) knotg=(1,80) knotg=(28,0) knotg=(114,0)
  knotg=(199,252) knotg=(251,96) knotb=(29,0) knotb=(114,252)
  knotb=(198,0)
}

[chaospro]

Hi,

as with the standard mandelbrot set (2D), there are boring areas even with Mandelbulb :-)

But the main thing is: You need to increase the number of iterations: Set it to 12 and you can see some nice structures at the left side. See following parameter set: Maxiter increased and "Adjust" button pressed for a better z-resolution and number of samples of Ambient occlusion set to 200 for a better quality.

Quaternion.3  {
  credits="Martin;3/16/2010/17/31;Crispin;3/15/2010/17/28"  commentTe\
  mplate="Saved on $month$, $day$ $year$ at $hour$:$min$:$sec$\nDate:\
   $date$\nTime: $time$\nResolution: $xdots$ x $ydots$\nCalculation t\
  ime: $calctime$\nVersion: $version$"
  CommentText="Saved on Mar, 16 2010 at 17:34:10\nDate: Mar 16, 2010\\
  nTime: 17:34:10\nResolution: 640 x 480\nCalculation time: 00:01:03.\
  203\nVersion: 4.0"
  creationTime=2010/3/15/17/28/7 saveTime=2010/3/16/17/34/10
  Creator="Crispin" ModifiedBy="Martin" calcTime=63203 version=4.0
  Type=Quaternion Subtype=0 DisplayDepth=24 AOSamples=+200
formula:
  filename="Quaternions.cfm" entry="Mandel3D" p_bailout=4 p_c=0/0/0/0
  p_fractaltype="Mandelbulb" p_juliaMode=0 p_n=8 p_radiusPower=0.5
  p_modx="Standard" p_mody="Standard" p_modz="Standard" maxiter=12
  highresmult=1 percheck=3
inside:
  filename="Quaternions.ccl" entry="Orbital" p_bOrbit=1 p_iternum=0
  p_frmltype1="Orbit Distance" p_frmltype2="Spherical" f_fn1=sin
  f_fn2=sin solid=0 background=0
dimensional:
  observer=0/0.57413863744125/0.52242596365139
  topview=0/-0.67301251352737/0.7396310949626
  backClippingPlane=0.12731927931309
  frontClippingPlane=0.018902048282325
lighting:
  light0Relative=yes
  light0Pos=1057.4078019426/451.41976862365/-1296.5100589059
  light0Ambient=0.2 light0Diffuse=0.8 light0Shiny=0.3
  light0Reflection=20 light0IntensSat=1 light0SpecularSat=0.3
  light0SpecularLum=0
gradient:
  smooth=no colormodel=CM_RGB knotmode=each dragknotmode=global
  Offset=0 knotr=(1,252) knotr=(29,252) knotr=(114,0) knotr=(198,252)
  knotr=(251,252) knotg=(1,80) knotg=(28,0) knotg=(114,0)
  knotg=(199,252) knotg=(251,96) knotb=(29,0) knotb=(114,252)
  knotb=(198,0)
}


And then I reduced the number of iterations to 10, moved the image a bit so the interesting area is more in the middle of the window. There were sudden jumps in the image, so I increased "Parameter/Scan Start" to 10. "Parameter/Resolution" has been set to 5 in order to improve image quality. In order to enhance colors I set "Coloring/Iteration Cycle" to 2 and finally pressed "View/Adjust" again and let it render:

Quaternion.3  {
  credits="Martin;3/16/2010/17/31;Crispin;3/15/2010/17/28"  commentTe\
  mplate="Saved on $month$, $day$ $year$ at $hour$:$min$:$sec$\nDate:\
   $date$\nTime: $time$\nResolution: $xdots$ x $ydots$\nCalculation t\
  ime: $calctime$\nVersion: $version$"
  CommentText="Saved on Mar, 16 2010 at 17:40:21\nDate: Mar 16, 2010\\
  nTime: 17:40:21\nResolution: 640 x 480\nCalculation time: 00:04:18.\
  581\nVersion: 4.0"
  creationTime=2010/3/15/17/28/7 saveTime=2010/3/16/17/40/21
  Creator="Crispin" ModifiedBy="Martin" calcTime=258581 version=4.0
  Type=Quaternion Subtype=0 DisplayDepth=24 AOSamples=+200
formula:
  filename="Quaternions.cfm" entry="Mandel3D" p_bailout=4 p_c=0/0/0/0
  p_fractaltype="Mandelbulb" p_juliaMode=0 p_n=8 p_radiusPower=0.5
  p_modx="Standard" p_mody="Standard" p_modz="Standard" maxiter=10
  highresmult=5 backtrace=10 percheck=3
inside:
  filename="Quaternions.ccl" entry="Orbital" p_bOrbit=1 p_iternum=2
  p_frmltype1="Orbit Distance" p_frmltype2="Spherical" f_fn1=sin
  f_fn2=sin solid=0 background=0
dimensional:
  observer=0/0.57413863744125/0.52242596365139
  topview=-0.024083118873658/-0.70608612449359/0.70771631900285
  viewpoint=-0.073184222988385/0.5016387555291/0.4476026713722
  backClippingPlane=0.1871255427599
  frontClippingPlane=0.019281005859375
lighting:
  light0Relative=yes
  light0Pos=1057.4078019426/451.41976862365/-1296.5100589059
  light0Ambient=0.2 light0Diffuse=0.8 light0Shiny=0.3
  light0Reflection=20 light0IntensSat=1 light0SpecularSat=0.3
  light0SpecularLum=0
gradient:
  smooth=no colormodel=CM_RGB knotmode=each dragknotmode=global
  Offset=0 knotr=(1,252) knotr=(29,252) knotr=(114,0) knotr=(198,252)
  knotr=(251,252) knotg=(1,80) knotg=(28,0) knotg=(114,0)
  knotg=(199,252) knotg=(251,96) knotb=(29,0) knotb=(114,252)
  knotb=(198,0)
}

Kind regards,
Martin

[sideshow bob]

Thanks again for your reply!

Regarding the special view mode for quaternions.  It might be an improvement if the manual mentions it in the "fractal parameter windows -> quaternion parameters -> view tab" page (which is where I initially looked for such a feature).  I hope this is of help to you.

Best regards, C.