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Author Topic: Using KF to compare renderings with SFT hacks  (Read 4960 times)
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3dickulus
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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2014, 12:38:32 AM »

perhaps this will illustrate my "hunt and peck" reference selection, a picture is worth a thousand words
the straight lines are from ref@0,0 estimating a ref point in the blob (not where they meet but a ratio of the h/w) corrects the blobs
the spiral path is route taken by the "attract to highest" routine selecting the third ref at the end of the path, corrects the antlers

coords...
Code:
s=5.6E-72
r=-1.985548413352953418245678803517026040561987431985854276276406746845711126061658645214360113333480219101280958482E+00
i=2.743067126729694556175287646032154237263455024187599021148859154137427770490544859414368041154125023E-13
iteration_limit=9903

edit: at the end of the spiral path you can see it kind of bunch up, that's where there is a tight group of the highest iter antlers so it catches all of them and not just one or two outer levels


* glitch-31.jpg (146.5 KB, 640x360 - viewed 278 times.)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 12:47:03 AM by 3dickulus, Reason: details details details » Logged

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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2014, 05:11:46 PM »

Yes, it is interesting to compare how many references needed to make an accurate image!
The location you are using should be rendered correctly with 2 references.
The antlers are the result of a close passage of a Minibrot which is less than e13 deep, and therefore it's influence is within the precision of a double and can be rendered correctly from the center reference.
The spirals are the result from a second Minibrot which is deeper, around e23, so a second reference is needed.

Here is another location for you to test. The first Minibrot is some 1e20 deep and it is also passing a second Minibrot at some e40.
Code:
r=-1.9999999999461418825243201495390685636362939769078113070798463419176571708038407421072727199867077569025138384499293434585
i=0.00000000000000000000033394407202645171104206004647350733251517989291496151155584069472821837325846333770494870112935304
z=2.83921376677E79
So you should need at least 3 references, but since you are using the second reference to find where to put the 3rd, I doubt you can render it correctly with 3 references.
And if you can, I can provide you new location that need 4 references and so on wink
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3dickulus
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« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2014, 01:13:25 AM »

I mentioned earlier that SFTC has no special provision for locations close to 0.0 like this with i@nE-22 so... I'll give it a try anyways...

26.12 seconds  cheesy

edit:KF 12.5 seconds wink I'm surprised that SFTC rendered that location at all, a little rough, approaching limits.


* test.jpg (103.89 KB, 640x360 - viewed 206 times.)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:18:32 AM by 3dickulus, Reason: tested » Logged

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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2014, 08:30:16 AM »

I am sorry I don't understand your spirals. But if there is more clever way to select extra references that is very interesting.
perhaps this will illustrate my "hunt and peck" reference selection, a picture is worth a thousand words
the straight lines are from ref@0,0 estimating a ref point in the blob (not where they meet but a ratio of the h/w) corrects the blobs
The staight line is not through the center of the image?
the spiral path is route taken by the "attract to highest" routine selecting the third ref at the end of the path, corrects the antlers

coords...
Code:
s=5.6E-72
r=-1.985548413352953418245678803517026040561987431985854276276406746845711126061658645214360113333480219101280958482E+00
i=2.743067126729694556175287646032154237263455024187599021148859154137427770490544859414368041154125023E-13
iteration_limit=9903

edit: at the end of the spiral path you can see it kind of bunch up, that's where there is a tight group of the highest iter antlers so it catches all of them and not just one or two outer levels

I don't understand how these spiral are calculated?

Regarding my latest location, how can your program take as long time as 26 seconds?
KF would render it in 1 second if it weren't for all the 70+ extra references needed...
The threshold could be lowered and fewer pixels be marked as glitches.
However, if the threshold is lower it may work with some images but not others.
Finding them all takes forever....
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 08:38:42 AM by Kalles Fraktaler » Logged

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3dickulus
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« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2014, 09:04:23 AM »

I really don't know, maybe it's just 3 refs instead of 70 huh? not as much approximation data so more iterating?
and the math is only what was in the original SFT Java code, no extra approximation or additional terms.
ArPrec lib uses fft and a modified Taylor series internally to speed up operations

The straight lines represent the pixels tested when doing an initial search for a blob after generating the first reference @0,0 testing for a group of failed pixels larger than 20.
Plotted them only for illustrative purposes, they serve no function other than a visual aid so I can tell what's going on.
The spirals are the same thing but for the search after generating the second ref from a point in the blob.

On the second pass, after rendering an image from the first (blob) reference you can check in the rendered data instead of calculating the iterations for points when testing for more blobs, but SFTC currently is calculating iterations and looking for the highest location on the second pass when looking for the third ref.

edit: I find it rather amusing that we think of 26 seconds as a long time to render an M set image @E79 laugh

« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:23:02 AM by 3dickulus, Reason: lol » Logged

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Kalles Fraktaler
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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2014, 03:55:59 PM »

Hmm...

The first location actually need only one reference to be displayed decently without notable difference, if it is placed in the center of the deep spiral.
The glitch detection detects glitches on many pixels that looks OK without glitch detection.

If only one reference is used on the second location, the antlers get structured glitches. It is hard to see unless the image is very large.

So... until someone (most probably not me...) finds a clever way to know where to put the references, I think we have to live with that sometimes a unnecessary large number of extra references needs to be added. Especially for a general Mandelbrot explorer that can handle all locations.
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3dickulus
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« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2014, 09:49:04 PM »

if glitches are one pixel they will be very likely to get lost in jpeg or mpeg compression, this is why I am not getting too picky about single pixels and concentrating on the larger areas, it seems that when you nail the big ones a lot of the small ones get covered by the new reference.

in the stage 1,2,3 pics, (page 2) the antlers look messy, it's the palette, light bands next to dark bands in a tight pattern, looks better with an adjustment to color spread, the two clips are from the same iteration data.



* palette-test.jpg (122.14 KB, 360x280 - viewed 249 times.)
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3dickulus
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2014, 11:21:38 PM »

New version of Kalles Fraktaler 2.5.9 available on http://www.chillheimer.de/kallesfraktaler/
... ...
 I picture myself being able to create resemblance to any object in the Mandelbrot set, e.g. letters, animals, faces, Axolotl, but it is kind of hard even with this new function. But with more practice it will eventually be possible.

Very interested to explore this, in SFTC I am having problems with the PolishedEmerald location that doesn't make sense to me, KF renders it perfectly and has no problem panning and zooming, SFTC can't pan or zoom on this location. At first I thought it was going wonky because the im coord is at E-11 and it seemed to be a precision problem with coordinates but SFTC renders DDs Flake location perfectly and it has an im coord at E-34 so that's not it.

Accessing the reference data in a skewed manner seems more likely but that would indicate a loss of precision somewhere else in the process,
eg: ref calculated at -2.22652,-0.00573 but accessed as though it was -2.227,-0.006 huh? from lost bits or rounding huh? it does make nice pics though, I found this hedgehog? at the PolishedEmerald location by manually moving the center a bit, but this tells me something is amiss, it should be round and symmetric.

It would be very cool to gain control over this for "sculpting" images.


* Boo.jpg (51.87 KB, 512x384 - viewed 404 times.)

* Boo2.jpg (52.3 KB, 512x384 - viewed 206 times.)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 11:37:12 PM by 3dickulus » Logged

Resistance is fertile...
You will be illuminated!

                            #B^] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fractals/fragmentarium
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