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being that we have members here from all over the world, I was pondering how you view the US?  
As in politics
education Ect...

As a resident and citizen of the USA, I love the country, and the principles upon which it was founded.  It's the government, and the culture, that I am less than thrilled with.  Having just come off one of the most viscious election cycles in recent years, I heard more hyperbole, propaganda, grandstanding, and other deceptive speech than I could handle.  I can't imagine what it's like in Washington day to day!

The USA is a dying empire, like Great Britain was in the first half of the 20th century.  We built ourselves up in wealth with the industrial revolution, and took the lead in the world when WWII destroyed every other major economy in the world.  Since then, the government has grown exponentially, bureacracy has put us in a stranglehold, and machine building politics of special interest have left us with more expenses than we could pay off in a hundred years.  And we now are living off credit trying to maintain our hegemony - likely bankrupting ourselves in the process.

Hopefully the ideals of freedom and individual liberty will survive the reign of fools.

The Rev

Hmmmm - the USA is so diverse that  it's hard to say, except in terms of politics and state.

In that sense I'm absolutely disgusted with the selfish attitude of the general US voter, they seem always to go for the short-term gain and have no idea of what the best way is to stability and fairness in a country i.e. a more egalitarian society.
The most annoying thing is the constant complaints about the state taking too much money and responsibility away from the individual - it's about time someone showed them that the problem is exactly the opposite i.e. the lack of state support for the poor and disadvantaged and the fact that the state itself has no protection against the influence of big business conglomerates etc. (they're the ones with too much power, not the state itself) - protecting the power of the individual is the guise under which this influence is preserved.
I still can't believe there's no National Health Service in the USA, or the power and influence that organisations such as the NRA and Oil companies etc. wield.

In the past (before I knew more) I assumed that the US Democrats were the equivalent of the UK Labour party and the US Republicans the equivalent of the UK Conservative party but in actual fact it appears that the Democrats are equivalent to the Conservatives and the Republicans are as far right as UKIP or even the BNP - anything this far right wing is generally reviled in the UK !!

It seems politically (apart from human rights issues) the UK is almost as close to China as to the USA (OK that's exagerrating, but not as much as some may think).

i feel sorrow for the usa, i used to critizise them much, but since bush destroyed nearly everything they had, they now just have a devastating bad infrastructure and poor industrial standards ( because money was absorbed instead of reinvesting )


right now i feel very bad about them, because they have a bad situation to deal with, and i do not believe that they can deal with it

and they vote for republicans again with a protective economic behaviour, that is like dave pointed out very short sighted ...

just my thoughts ...

regards

How do I view the usa?

I can't properly state my views without using profanity!

The short version is - Capitalism Does NOT Work.

The so-called fix to our health care system was a joke.  Mandating that everyone BUY overpriced insurance (which barely covers anything) is no way to claim Universal Coverage.  Those who don't have health insurance generally can't afford it, so Ordering them to buy it is awesome dudeic.

The stupidity of this whole argument about giving tax breaks to the richest people to boost the economy is insane.  They say that those are the people who create the jobs, and taxing them will force jobs out of the market - but that is a Blatant LIE.  These people run big corporations and the corporations and other businesses are the entities that should get tax breaks (but they should be dependent upon hiring people) - but certainly NOT the people who run the corporations!  Their personal income is never used to run their businesses!  It's the Corporate income.  TAX THE FLUFF Out of their personal income, but allow corporate earnings re-invested into hiring to get nice tax break.

Personally, I'd leave this country in a heartbeat - but I am getting old and have no place to go and am not certain what I'd do  (but I am ready to risk it and find out!).

How do I view the usa? 

It's a superficial wasteland where appearances count more than substance and people are ... 

No Profanity, huh?

Sorry.

As I said - I can not properly state my feelings about this country without using profanity!

I think its a very divided country at the moment.
My parents live in England and my dad regularly votes for a different party to my mum. My fiance is from US and the divide is much stronger, its like democrats and republicans really keep very segregated and the views are very polarised.

I think US and UK need to accept that we invaded a country and killed many more innocents than the number of soldiers who were defending their own country, and propoganda and bias in the media were extreme. Its amazing how primitive we really are. Colonialism and tribalism remain, loosely obscured by our self-proclaimed sophistications of iphones, laptops and phds etc.

We should measure how advanced a country is by how it treats other countries, how it treats its poor, how it treats the nature that it is sharing the land with. Not by how rich its richest are, or how powerful its leaders are.

I got a chance to live and work there for 2 1/2 years (early 2001 - late 2003). I did enjoy the freedom, the low income taxes, the cheap gas prices for a while. And I saw much of this huge country with all its diverse landscapes.

But it is noticeable how strong the social extremes are. How underdeveloped public healthcare is. The costs of getting higher education for your kids. The danger of getting mugged on the street or running into some awesome dude carrying firearms. And SWAT invading residential apartments for ... pot (yeah, was witnessing a SWAT raid myself in the neighbourhood).  

America is a land of extremes. Attractive and frightening at the same time. Sometimes these downsides appear to overwhelm the liberty you can experience in this country. I did go back to Old Europe.

Things definitely did go downhill since 9/11.

Priscilla Presley had this great line in "Ford Fairlaine".  She tells Andrew Dice Clay, "I'm extremely rich, the kind of wealthy that warps minds."  I think this line might sum up the USA's mix of attractive and frightening.  We don't see ourselves as just another country.  We see ourselves as THE country, as if we're the alpha dog of the world.  And since we're rich enough to sorta make it at least seem that way, why not accept the idea that our outlook is better, our morals are higher, our culture is stronger, etc?  There's no other country in the world that we take seriously enough to listen to, should they have a reality check to offer us.

GW Bush was the epitome of that mindset, and while Obama is only a bit less so, it is enough less to gather an angry mob around the Tea Party banner shouting, "Make him a one term president!!"  Exercise humility at your own risk; this is America, Jack.

The Rev

I have a grip with a lot of things but here is a few: 
One:  The fact that people insist on choosing other people's rights for them: Abortion and Marriage.
Two: I can't keep up with the job market, and pay for education, let alone survive.
Three:  People are always blaming, suing, and stomping over other people just so they can save/get a little cash.
Four: Relationships seem to be at the bottom of the barrel, if they can't get rich off of you then you're a waste of time to them.

Is this just the U.S. (or just places I've lived in (Boise,ID; SLC, UT; SF,CA; Chicago,IL; Eugene,OR; Seattle,WA)) or is this everywhere?

One: In UK abortion of unwanted pregnancy is legal up to 24 weeks I think, in fact I believe it's also possible to buy "morning after" pills over the counter. Marriage ? If  you mean what I think, same sex marriage is legal in  the UK.
Two: Job market at the moment is a problem in many countries I think. Payment for further education recently got worse over here, though graduates won't have to repay student loans until they earn over £21,000 per year apparently. Like possibly the majority of the public here I think even University education should be free for all - in fact personally I'd go further, those studying in higher education should get paid for doing so.
Three: Not so much a problem in the UK.
Four: Here I think people value happiness more than wealth and are more likely to accept that wealth does not necessarily bring happiness.

The biggest problem here is that more often than not those currently out of work are entitled to various benefits some of which they lose as soon as they get any job *no matter what the job pays* this is crazy because often this means that should they take the job then they end up with less net income than if they stayed unemployed - I should add that this crazy situation is not as extreme as it used to be but it's about time the government sorted it out once and for all (I'd even vote Conservative if they came up with a workable solution that didn't decrease the current benefits available).

The UK has better beer, too. :D

The Rev

Check out these guys...

http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Williams-Bros-Brewery/100000750450203

I highly recommend the Pine Ale and the Ebulum.

I used to love Fullers ESB, but I haven't been able to find it for years.  Not since this one great English pub closed down.  Most of what you get around here now is local craft beers, which are great, but unless you want Guiness, Boddingtons, or one of them, you're out of luck.

BTW, to keep this on topic, I will say that my opinion of the USA went up a notch when the laws changed and small breweries were allowed to flourish.  Before Prohibition, there were thousands of them, but they were all put out of business by the Volstead Act.  Only the large brewers could stay out of bankruptcy court, because they had the money to retool their factories for malted milk and other products.  After Prohibition was repealed, there were only a few huge brewers, and since a large percentage of the male population was off to war, they started brewing a lighter beer because they thought it would appeal to women more.  That's why, until recently, all beer in the US resembled watered down, carbonated urine.

/historical trivia

The Rev

Just so you know, Utah still sells toilette Beer...  :-\

Socio-paths (republicans) have taken over the nation.  That party has changed dramatically for the worse!  They have been enabled by ignorant ( low information) white trash bigots. I cry as I have seen my life/world change for the worse.  Being a good Christian will only make things worse! Also do not want to be associated with the hypocricy of it all.

Speaking of beer?  Drinking American beer is like having sex in a canoe.   What's even sadder is you go to a Wisconsin brewry & the "trash" are drinking bud lite.  How clueless.  Having an education is concidered a bad thing.
I WANT OUT!  I really lost hope in this nation when I was sued. (real estate deal)  I had the law on my side.  However judge was in the guys pocket.  Did not care what proof I had or anything.  Many more horror stories.. but I'm sure no -one is interested in an old woman's rantings!  Besides just get my panties in a bunch AGAIN!

Our president needs to GROW A PAIR.  (too good of a Christian)

Most Americans have no commonsense & the attention span of a teetsy fly!  The will change political views like they change the channel.  Also drama queens. So all the fauxpas news BS & relgious fanatics really get their attention. Media has a feeding frenzy with it. I blame them also.  Yes Bush accelerated the process, even tho it started with Reagan.  Definately have lost our edge with math, science ed.  :sad1: :'(

On the lighter side.. :toast:
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=IMJDxg421xg&next=%2Fmy_videos
A great brewery in the US.

TGLAD  "We should measure how advanced a country is by how it treats other countries, how it treats its poor, how it treats the nature that it is sharing the land with. Not by how rich its richest are, or how powerful its leaders are."  that's what iot SHOULD come down to!  Also I believe & would love feedback on how other nations view president Obama.  I believe he is only treated disrespecfully by his own citizens. :'(

A quote that is both very funny and very serious at the same time:

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. — Henry Louis Mencken, "Bayard vs. Lioneart," Baltimore Evening Sun, 26 July 1920.

This is absolutely not specific to the United States of America (Europe, for instance, is full of representative democracies that are all too representative :-) ). Perhaps this is the reason why President Obama no longer enjoys the sympathy of his people. They voted him into office because he promised to be a better person than George W. Then Obama turned out to indeed be a man of virtue and farsightedness. And now the ordinary citizens are confronted with the fact that maybe such high standards are not representative.


It is everybody's very own choice to feel either humbled or humiliated in the presence of a shining example. The latter is more convenient, though, because it doesn't prompt you to completely change your ways.

Love Mencken quotes (quirky) :)  The latter quote about being humbled or humiliated says it all.  I remember I used to say that I was trying to be more "Obama like"  But since then I have lost my "audacity of hope" & have gone to the dark side.  IE:  Bush & Cheney need to be held accountable.

I see it as a dying country, but with enough power to kill the rest of the world.

I like their idea of individual (selfish?) liberty.
I think that their educational system is weird (very good elite education, but the rest is totally dumbed down. (france is following the same path btw)).
their economy is insane (W bush ... (but france got sarkozy...))
Too much religion everywhere (intelligent design at school ? wtf?!)

USA did a lot of mistake... and France repeat the same mistakes  :angry:

To the rupublicans liberty mens having the right to tell everyone else how to live.  Right now we have gotten some in congress who want to get rid off all gov't programs, like public shcools.  At least in France the youth are ambitious /intelligent enough to protest.  Yes too much org. religion.  WE are supposed to have "freedom from religion."  GW is now doing his book tour.  Touting how he was an alcoholic til age of 40.  Bragging about being a war criminal.  Then he became "born again"  Last resort for a dying soul? When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross!

Wasn't Rumsfield forced out of France?   (because of the war crimes)

As long as you have the liberty to not listen to them... it's ok, isn'it ? :)

Not when they (those with power) change & or ignore laws of civil liberties. Sadly I have experienced this.

If you really don't get picky on the details, what country doesn't take advantage of their citizens and those from other countries to get what they want.  It comes down to no country is perfect and the U.S. is a teenager just getting over puberty.  So why can't people teach the U.S. what the "older" countries learned?  Well because teenagers rarely listen and obey, they just try to break the rules and act all macho.  I just hope we don't go all killing each other over who's greater and who has the better god.  If there's anything to learn from all of fractals it's that the more things change the more they stay the same, just more complex or less but still the same similar patterns repeat all over the world.

Unfortunately to many people liberty apparently means forcing people to abide by laws or rules that themselves restrict liberty beyond what I'd regard as the necessary bounds.
To me the measure of how good a country's socio-political system is, is how toleant it is without condoning outright wrongdoing (or evil if you want a more emotive term), how freely it allows criticism of and satirical humour about the "authorities" and how even-handed it is in terms of human rights (e.g. racism, sexism, ageism etc.)
The problem with the US Republicans (and many other right wingers and some extreme left wingers) is that their tolerance bpundaries are severely restricted to the point of not allowing free speech and actively descriminating against anyone who doesn't closely share their own beliefs (or even just those who *they think* don't share their beliefs).