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I was pondering this topic.  Is there a "best" way to ask for it?  Give it?

I'd just post the image, mention what software made it, and ask.

The straight forward method is the best.   Just ask for it!!     :)
But be careful for what you wish for, you may get it.    :evil1:


Now giving criticism, constructive or otherwise, is a whole different matter.  Two people can say the same thing about an image, but get viewed by the "artist" as meaning two different things, all depends on whom the criticizer is.

And then there are those people that cannot stand any constructive criticism, for they will always feel it to be a personal attack against them and their creations.  (Heaven forbid somebody makes a non-constructive criticism.)

Personally, I could care less one way or the other whether comments are issued on the fractal creations I make.  I am usually just playing around, testing the limitations and abilities of a specific application.  Occasionally I render something I feel is interesting, and then I save it for displaying later on.  But most of these never see the light of day, so to speak.
 

EXCEPTS TAKEN FROM ARTICLE....
Text copyright Jim Erhardt.
All rights reserved.

I found this all to be very helpful.   :dink:

I believe there is a skill to both asking & recieving.  I appreciate it.  But do not think I know the right way to ask specifics.

I wonder sometimes if people have time to critique anymore.  Life moves too fast for someone to take time to carefully critique everything.  When someone does take time it's probably because the image is worth it to them to critique.  Asking for a critique is best when you feel the item is worth enough to critique.  Also having no response is a silent critique in my opinion, especially if you asked for one.  What all matters is how you honestly feel about the image yourself.  You are your worst critique.  If you just pushed a button and "wham" there's your image, then you know if it's worthy of a critique or not.

Not having the time?  Or just not caring to be helpful.  Beginners here like myself I believe appreciate "feedback"  Many times I for one do not ( for a while) even understand the feedback!  But over time sinks in.  :embarrass:  It's ashame that many newbies here seem to disappear. In terms of "worthy of posting?" I feel we get more from the "less than perfect" Otherwise your just speaking to the chior & feeding ego!

I have created fractal images that one person finds "just okay" and another finds "amazing".  Personally, I prefer the latter to critique my work, but when it comes down to it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Some people like my work more than others.  The important thing (and I think I'm just really starting to learn this) is that the most important opinion is my own.  My judgement is just as good as anyone elses, but that's just the beginning.  The other side of it is, knowing your own opinion is the most important, to create work for yourself as the audience.  Do you REALLY like what you created?  Or are you trying to fulfill some concept of "good art" or "quality work" as if there is some objective standard more important than your own.

I think inspiration comes most easily when the artist creates for him/herself as the audience.  Let others think what they like, listen to their critiques for ideas that might not have occured to you, but don't let them make you second guess your own judgement.  No one can tell you that what YOU think is best really isn't, unless you're prepared to let them.  I think that's the real liberation that comes with being an artist.  Putting aside the pursuit of satisfaction through the approval of others, and going straight for the joy of beholding your own creations.

The Rev

WOW! That is well said!  You truly spoke from the heart.  I felt it.
Thank you for sharing this!  It is what I always felt, but could never say so eloquently.

Thanks. :D

The Rev

Sometimes it's easier to criticize than be correct. :dink:

Interesting that some will critique without being asked. While at times one will ask for a critue with no response :hmh:

Lately, the critiques I am getting here are in no way valuable to my work and intentions.  In fact they are just getting misinterpreted and causing a little bit of frustration :-\.  Makes me want to post my works less and less here.  I may just post to my own site and picasa and leave it at that. 

That implies you have specific areas of concern about your work.

General critiques are not going to address those.  It may help to ask specific questions about specific aspects of the work.  And maybe ask in places other than the image posting areas.  If you want help, and not just critiques (which are ultimately not very useful, I agree) try asking in Help and Support. (http://www.fractalforums.com/help-and-support/)  I think you'll get better results that way.  Otherwise you'll just be asking for opinions, which vary from person to person and don't mean anything!  The only opinion of your work that matters is yours.

Requesting Generalized Critiques or asking "how do I make this better" will only get you opinions, but asking more targeted questions (like "how do I get the coloring to ..."  or "can I get rid of this ..." type stuff) will likely be more along the lines of what you seek.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I like them and will do so when I want a critique.  I actually never asked for critiques.

Like Bent Winged said, I get them when I don't ask for them. I did ask twice for help on programming and you did respond to the Strange Attractor Explorer program of mine (Which is still down).  I thank you very much for that.

Most of the images I post aren't even in rate-my-fractal categories, unless it's M3D, because I know most people are over the 2D images.  This is another reason why I feel I should not bother posting them(2D images).   I just feels like things are getting personal here . . . not that it's bad to get personal.  I just feel I need to say more about the problem of responding to something without too much concern for the reader, receiver or the renderer.

I actually rarely tell someone I don't like something, but it's my personal belief that if you don't like something and you weren't asked for input then don't say anything at all.  Now if you feel you have every right to say you don't like it then at least realize that this person is human and does have feelings.  If we all should be in a feelingless world then there would be no art, music, love, or kids thus society would diminish to extinction.

If someone feels they can say whatever they want whenever they want then the receiver of such words can say whatever they want whenever they want right back at them.

All I'm asking for is a little thought before they click the send or post button.  I really reread most of my responses twice to three times before I press "post" (mainly when I have something important to say and to look at grammar and spellings [not always but I try really hard]). :dink:

I'm not picking any one out.  I just have had enough people telling me they don't like my images without any concern for how I would receive that (and again without me even asking for their input); but yes, this is the world-wide-web where anything goes, only regulated by those who feel some rules should be set in place.  I am one to speak out for such a suggestion (not rules mainly but just a little more consideration for someone's feelings) .  Whether this takes hold or not, at least someone will read this and maybe change the way they post critiques when not even asked for them.

I could go on forever about internet etiquette, but I won't because I don't feel the need right now.  Maybe later I will make a whole post on a blog somewhere....I'm sure there's enough of them out there anyways. It's just common sense.  I know, common sense is not so common....

[changed my mind and deleted]

lol just to let us know!

Since this group is filled with geeks it is important to remember that Geeks often take interest in the microcosmic details of life, such as noticing that your present situation is much like one from a news article or novel. Nerds will be seemingly uninterested in the details of daily life, being more focused on the macroscopic, such as scientific possibilities and the future of humankind. Many are much less interested & or capable of handling daily social graces & being PC.
This would also apply to this thread http://www.fractalforums.com/discuss-fractal-forums/making-it-personal/

That's kind of the way I see it.  This is just an occasional hobby for me and I'm just happy if someone has taken the time to comment on my images, regardless of what they have to say.  It's better to be spoken about than not spoken about, as Oscar Wilde once said.

As a user, rather than an originator of fractal software (as well as being my own worst critic), I often see myself as being merely a Discoverer of fractal patterns.  Sometimes I feel the beauty I see in them is a personal thing; other times I think it's something that will appeal to others.  In the latter situation I find I usually have to do some "work", in order to isolate and bring out the key attraction I see in a fractal; through framing, composition, lighting, colouring, etc. - but I'm still not sure at what point it becomes "Art".

I commented in the Making It Personal thread, that I believe negative opinion can ultimately be a constructive thing; but it's important to frame it in the correct terms.  One way is to cushion it by mentioning any positives first.  Another technique can be to frame it as a question, e.g. "I wonder what would happen, if you changed the colour scheme to something a bit more neutral?"

£0.02

Framing as a question is an excellent idea!  Does not put the artist on the defensive.

My usual approach is to first of all say what I like about the work then say something like "That might look better if..." remembering of course that this might be simply a matter of preference.  At the end of the day, the artist is always right.  His motive is to achieve something that he is happy with, not to please other people.

followed by a nice word or two after the suggestion. It's called a compliment sandwich and is common if a bit manipulative:

"Your building plan is really good, I love it, such great details,
Just a minor grumble, if you could add some windows, and maybe remove the stilts...
Otherwise thanks again, really good effort"

I'm not sure about manipulative if your motives are to ensure the other party doesn't feel put down.  That's just respect.

A bit manipulative, not a lot, but a bit. Since you are basically providing the compliments in order to get them to change the feature you want.
I find it more genuine to say what you think.
Of course, if you genuinely like something then give the compliment, but just to sugar coat a criticism is a little condescending, like you think they can't handle a little negative feedback.

Compliment sandwich:
"Mandelbulb3d is really great, I love it I love it,
The only thing it needs is a little colour palette editor, then it would be perfect,
Thanks again and good job"

In this case the reviewer might indeed really like mandelbulb3d, however they are probably also using the compliments to get their request, so this one is semi-genuine.

HMMM Depends on your motive again.  I wasn't thinking of sugar coating the criticism, just phrasing in a way that doesn't come across as "that's wrong", but as "I think this would be better".  I was also thinking in terms of somebody's artwork for example, not trying to get something out of them.  It could be used manipulatively though, I agree.

honesty