Welcome to Fractal Forums

Are they all created equal?  Do you have a preference?  For example is one better for beginners than another?

It's all a matter of taste.

I don't much care for UltraFractal, but it's touted as one of the best!

My favorites are Chaoscope, ChaosPro, Mutatorkammer, and I'm rapidly growing fonder and fonder of Mandelbulb 3D.

All are suited for non-mathematicians, but the more you learn, the more you can do  O0

If you're on a Mac, Fractalworks is a great one!

Just try as many as you can get and see which ones get along best with your way of thinking...

My 1st attempt at creating fract art was with apophysis.  Could not get the hang of it. Seems limited to just flames.  No info out there.  just screwed up my PC by downloading anything that could possibly help.  Then I came across ChaosPro.  Slow learning curve! But can be done even without being a mathmetician.  I have decided to stick with it (just using Chaospro & nothing else. )  Seems it has much to offer.  Never truly master it all. 

A while ago I put together a sampler video of what could be done using ChaosPro.. in an attempt to get others interested in a social networking site. 
No one seems to want to do the work to learn it!

Anyway here it is..

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=9MoPw8SGroQ

Xenodream is my favourite, using devices called holons instead of entering countless values is most suitable for ol'explorers like me. And I can build some fractal architecture, perfect for a stone carver...

 I'm also becoming a mandelbulb 3D nerd... thanks to Jesse^^

They are NOT all created equal, some are geared for a specific type of fractal, a few for their graphic editor abilities, some for their variety and flexibility, and others for their ease of understanding and use.

Most people do have a preference.  Out of a few thousand people I have asked, here is the result of that tally:
  http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Tried-Use_Counts.html (http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Tried-Use_Counts.html)
  http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Most_Used_Counts.html (http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Most_Used_Counts.html)

And "yes" to your last question.  But...

• What is it that the beginner is wanting to do and know??
• How old is the beginner??
• What is their current knowledge level??
• Do they want to learn more math, or just create nice images and videos??

ChaosPro is one of the better FREE applications available.  And there are things it can do that some of the PurchaseWare applications can not.  So, have fun with it for as long as you can, and make sure you keep up with all the updates that come out.     :dink:
 

Thanks for the reminder on keeping up with the updates on ChaosPro.  Nahee!  You mentioned several inportant factors when choosing.  My biggest problem when I stubbled into this spectacular art form was getting info.  PLus I'm self taught with lil "formal" ed.  As you mentioned do you want to creat just "pretty pics & vids"?? Sounds simplistic, Being that the more I learn the more I want to learn & grow with this art form.  Soo far I see no growing out of ChaoPro.  Their variety of applications is excellent.  Just need to figure out the things I want to do.  Love the "infinity" of it all!  Oh your right age does make a difference.  Particularly if looking for carreer opportunities. BTW I'm retired!   ;D

There are many sources for information in both the use of specific applications and the general creation of various image types and/or editing of such.  I used to try and keep up with all of those, but now there are way too many to have a useful and full listing.  I find it much easier to ask the beginner what they are wanting to know, then either give an answer from my own knowledge or do a specific Internet search using Google to get links.
 

Hi,


Gnah! There shouldn't be that much updates for ChaosPro :) And btw., if one does not encounter any problems and is not interested in the "new" features, one can still stick with the "old" version :)

Anyway, if you have problems or need some info, just ask. If it's a general question, ask in a forum like here. If it's specific to a fractal generator, ask the author of the program. Normally they are quite willling to help and give some useful hints.

Kind regards,
Martin

Depends on what is going on in the fractal community.  There probably have been more updates to ChaosPro in the past several months, than there has over the past several years.  And all of these recent modifications and additions are most appreciated.   :dink:


ChaosPro does have a couple of email lists that you can join:
    http://www.chaospro.de/maillists/chaospro.php
And has an online Wishlist for posting to:
    http://www.chaospro.de/forum/index.php?bn=chaospro_wl

But if you are wanting specifics about "fractal art" as a way of creating graphics, then that is a topic that is much too big for any Forum.  That is because of the word "art", which most everybody tends to have their own definition and way of viewing/creating such.
 

 I'm also becoming a mandelbulb 3D nerd... thanks to Jesse^^
[/quote]

I  love creating these "gismos" hmmnn never thought of myslef a a geek?  BTW who's Jesse?

Jesse is the biggest Mandelbulb 3D nerd of them all!!

He wrote the program of the same name.

Get it in our Downloads section  (link up top!)   O0

Yes, it is definitely one of my TOP fractal programs !!!    :D
(I can not actually put one application over another in my personal top ranking, because each has so much to offer.)


And this particular program is growing on me quite fast.  For a rather new application, I see this one having great potential to be something very special in the fractal community for a long time to come.    :dink:
 

I'll have a look at that video tomorrow!  I started a social networking site for Incendia; it has a few members
but nothing much is happening there...sigh.  Where was your network?  I'd certainly join to learn how to use
ChaosPro better...

The ChaosPro (http://www.chaospro.de/) web site and the Help file (not to mention the email list) are probably your best places to start with for learning more about the application.  There are many examples available for download to see what others have created, and what settings they used.

• Tutorials (http://www.chaospro.de/dim.php)
• Formula DB (http://www.chaospro.de/formulas/index.php)
• Resources (http://www.chaospro.de/resources.php)
• Mailing Lists (http://www.chaospro.de/maillists/chaospro.php)

And of course, there is always this Forum to ask questions in.     :)
 

I love chaos pro also. check out these hight field 3d fractal zoom videos I made with chaos pro. I just love the open gl 3d engine it uses.....

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/940532/3d_mandelbrot_fractal_set_zoom_escape/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/964746/3d_mandelbrot_fractal_zoom_smartie/

Nice work Teamfresh!  I love seeing what other folks come up with using the same generater.  Did you use the 3dGl landscape in some?  It looks like it.  I had difficulties.. but it's sooo addictive.   

thanks! yes these were done using the open gl 3d engine within chaos pro.
heres a few more chaos pro 3d fractals to watch - if you have time to kill. I made these some year ago nearly forgot about them - I feel all nostalgic after watching these....
(had to put the URL's in code boxes as that is the only way i could get them to appear in the post!)

bowls

squares

neon

spine

3d fractal play

candy

Watching all these back reminds me of how much i used to love making 3d fractals in chaos pro. I may have to make another one at the weekend - for old times sake  O0

Thanks for sharing!  I know what you mean about "feeling nostalgic" (even tho I've only been doing thsi since last fall) Backto fractal generators being equal.... I recently got Chaoscope.  Problem is it will not let me surf around while rendering & such.  Plus I have yet to get something rendered.  Takes almost 2 hrs.  Thought I would "batch process" just to get an idea of basic fractals.   Soo far ChaosPro seems the most complete/diverse as far as free ware goes.

If you want to continue playing with Chaoscope while it's rendering an image, just open a second instance of the program.  One can render while the other plays   :music:

And as for render times, it's mostly the Julia's which take that long, either that or high resolution renders.  As with Quaternions in ChaosPro - explore with low resolution images - then make larger renders of the ones you like best  O0

Thanks Socratease!  Size does matter (excuse the pun) :embarrass:  Things started to move much faster. Plus I'm learning which are just naturally slower.

Thanks!

My problem is, I need about five more computers, and about eight more arms to play with all the generators I have now at once...lol.

What in your opinion would be MUST HAVES & why?   Which programs are simimar?

The only "Must Have" programs are the ones you find easy to use and produce results which you like!

Many people insist UltraFractal is a "must have" - but I find it a drudge to work with and find the results indistinguishable from many other programs.  But I get along great with the ...  "Unique" interface of Mutatorkammer and find that it produces a distinctive style of image I like a lot!  Chaoscope is also one I get along with quite well.

Of the new Mandelbulb programs, I just LOVE what I see coming out of Mandelbulber, but just can't wrap my tiny little brain around the interface!!  Mandelbulb 3D suits my way of thinking much better, and I am quite fond of the pictures I get from it   O0

I use Xenodream a lot for exporting obj files to use in 3D Work, but have difficulties with QuasZ, and others by the same programmer, getting results I like.


ChaosPro is similar enough to Ultra Fractal that I should be fine with both  (but CP can't do deep zooms  :-\ )  Many others share similar properties as well...

Thanks for info on "deep zooms" with CP.  I have just recently gotten into that.   But noticing my limits.  Then I ponder are they my limits or programs.

Fractal Forge.. anyone use  it?  Don't think I've heard of it hear.

Could not have said it better myself !!!    :)

Fractal applications, just like any software programs, are tools to be used in a pre-programmed way.  Whether or not that particular tool is suited to your way of working, only you can decide that.


I have a whole collection of similar comments by several individuals whom have tried using UF.  Just because there are a lot of "commercials" advertising a particular tool, it does not make it the best thing to use.  UF has been promoted like any other media campaign; where if it is mentioned enough times from various sources, then it "must" be something worth getting.  Personally, I do not trust products (and especially not their distributors) that constantly hype it's abilities.
 

If I was limited to only having maybe 10 fractal generators, then in my personal opinion the following would be my choice:

• FractInt
• XenoDream
• Kai's Power Tools (KPT)
• QuaSZ
• ChaosPro
• Tiera-Zon
• Mandelbulb3D
• Mind-Boggling Fractals
• Fractal Explorer
• Apophysis

Out of the 600 or so programs that I am aware of, most of them fall into about five basic categories, with the Mandelbrot/Julia generators being by far the largest grouping.  Out side of that, they are all similar in that they are computer programs that render fractals.    :)


I have played with it enough to discover its abilities, and areas that could be enhanced.  I have about eight different versions that I have tried out over the years.
 

Personally I would put Mandelbulber at the top of the list (Though I admit I've only tried 4 or 5 programs), the auto-near and far planes are a godsend, the distance estimate based zoom is nice for avoiding colliding with the fractal, and it is lightning fast with lots of great features to add depth and lighting to the renders. Its also open source so you can make new fractals.
It has some drawbacks, the colouring options were very limited in the version I used, and there is no undo! this means if you accidentally click on the image it will zoom in and you have lost your well framed render for good. Also it saves every adjustment you make as a picture which seems unnecessary and can slow things down.

When I started this thread I had only really worked with ChaosPro.  Almost afraid to try anything else.  Since then I have added Chaoscope, Fractal Explorer, Fractal Forge & Apophysis.  Each seems to have it's positves & negatives.  As in each serves a differing purpose for me.

Have a look at Xaos also, it's real time zooming capability makes it very fun to use.

http://wmi.math.u-szeged.hu/xaos/doku.php

I am also a great fan of Incendia which is a superb free program.

http://www.incendia.net/

Thanks blb!  I just got lost checking out "source Forge"  Only interested in free-ware.  (have other priorities) :)  Just getting decent a zoomin.  Not all programs all equal on that.

I have to agree. The new key frame option is just awesome. I have just finished putting a sequence of keys together. It was a little tricky to get the hang of at first - but I worked it out soon enough. :) I cant wait for it to be finished already!

I definitely have to spend some time learning Mandelbulber, but my first impression was that I did not understand the logic of it, particularly the GUI. Anyway, I'm now in my Mandelbuld 3D phase and having much fun with it, so I would warmly recommend it because it's quite easy to learn. The only thing I'm not comfortable with in M3D are the shadows. I can't get nice "projected" shadows like I used to do in UF with Dave Makin formula, and it seems also easy to do in Mandelbulber.

Is it possible in Mandelbulber to do hybrid fractals (that is changing the formula at each iteration) ?

Edit : by the way, who has been using the 2 programs and what would be the pros and cons in your opinion ? MarkJayBee ?

Have you tried the hard shadow option?
It is calculated only for the first light and you have to adjust the angles for light and shadow by hand to fit.
But it gives better shadows and you dont need to turn the ambient shadow so high.
The sliders for the hard shadow in the lighting tab have to be adjusted more to the right side, just try it out.

Yes I have tried that. What I can't do for example is to draw a distinct shadow of a peak on a plane surface, like if the shadow strengh depends only on the surface normal, and not on objects around projecting their own shadows. So I'm not sure I exactly understand how hard shadows work, but the fact that they're updated in real time by the sliders makes me think it's too quick to be what I'm looking for. Maybe I need to test more, I will try and post some screenshots if necessary.

Yes, GUI in my program is not so perfect   :-\. When I finish some new features I will try to make Mandelbulber more intuitive. Generally I hate building user interfaces  :evil1:


Not yet, but I will be in near future. Now there is only possible to mix all formulas with IFS and Mandelbox formulas (base and auxiliary formula in the same iteration).

Just a quick hint because this thread is not only related to M3D:
You have to turn the hard shadow option in its tab on before rendering, only the amount and gradient can then be changed after rendering. Of course, it takes some more time to render because an additional ray must be calculated.

BTW I was having a lot of problems with ChaosPro, bugs & such. I thought that doing the updates would take care of it.  But no.. anyway I just downloaded it again.  Love it, have more features & better than ever.

Hello:

I'm new to the forum. I'm a graduate student in architecture @ Miami University and am looking at 3D fractal geometry as a generative methodology for building structure + form for my thesis project. I'm searching for the best/easiest 3D fractal generating software to use ... and one that exports into some sort of 3D MODEL format ... not just making cool/pretty/interesting 2D IMAGES.

I looked at "FractalWorks" but it seems to only be able to generate 3D images from a limited amount of original/existing fractals (perhaps I'm missing something)?

Does anybody have any suggestions recommendations?

Thanks!

Hello and Welcome to the forums!

You may enjoy this thread:  http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-renderings/mandelbox-architecture/ (http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-renderings/mandelbox-architecture/)

As for a decent Mandelbox obj file (or other 3D format) Export, I have no idea.  Maybe Visions of Chaos  ( http://softology.com.au/voc.htm (http://softology.com.au/voc.htm)  )  But I am still hoping to get a sample of the output to judge it's quality. Or perhaps one of Terry Gintz's programs?  http://www.mysticfractal.com/ (http://www.mysticfractal.com/)  Xenodream exports fine obj files too :  http://xenodream.com/ (http://xenodream.com/)

If you find one you like, let us know!



EDIT - These obj files will always be HUGE because they are generated from "point clouds" and not actual surface geometry, thus they have a ton more polygons than needed and often contain internal polygons hidden from view but part of the formula so they get rendered!

You may want to have a look at Fractracer as well:

http://fractracer.com/index.php

Thanks for the welcome and the direction everyone. It's a little overwhelming stepping into this realm (initially) of finding a good match of software and (my) skills ... or lack thereof!  :'(

The formulas and mathematics are a little mind-numbing. I'm hoping to find a software that is intuitive and less reliant on "numbers".

I suggest starting with Mandelbulb 3D from the Downloads section here  (link up top).

Very easy interface to get used to.

Just change some numbers in different places for different formulas at random to get a feel for what happens. 

It doesn't do obj format (that is a rare request - I thought I was the only one who REALLY wanted it!) but maybe if enough of us keep asking, Jesse will add that to the program   :elvis:

I tried to use Mandelbulb 3D to create a 3D object and I think I failed only because I couldn't find a free software, even a command line line one, to make an stl file out of a stack of B&W 2D slices animation walkthrough I rendered with it.

Does anyone know about such a tool?

I wish I could create an stl out of those bitmaps, then there are enough free tools to convert that to an obj which I then could render in Kerkythea.

Ideally, if Jesse would implement stl export some day, that would be uber cool.

 O0

Greetings, and Welcome to this particular Forum !!!    :)

Sockratease has already mentioned two places that I would try first:
  •  The many varied programs by Terry W. Gintz at Mystic Fractal (http://www.mysticfractal.com/).
  •  And the one by Garth Thornton at XenoDream (http://xenodream.com/).

Terry's programs should export into many different 3-D file formats, the .OBJ is just one of them.


I am afraid that when you deal with fractals, working with numbers is something one can not get away from.  A good thing about XenoDream is the ability to "drag" field values in directions to rapidly change numerical parameters, which can save a lot of guess work when one wishes to just play around with various images.
 

Thanks for the reply. I realize that I can't hide from the mathematics completely (or forever). I think I may need to experiment with several applications to find a good fit.

Thanks for the help!

sbrown9 feel the same way about "hiding from the math" However there must be a balance of what is nesseccary VS thosae who absolutely love the math aspect.  For example with "fractal Forge" I jst cannot get the hang if animation.  ChaosPro it has been slow but steady progress.  Now with "fractal Explorer it has come fairly easily. We all have differing strenths & weakness. Soo ya just gotta find the "right fit"  :dink:

Jesse I forgot to tell you it's been a few days since I understood how hard shadows work. At first I had not understood that the angle was to be set up in the main window, not in the lighting window. So everything is perfect. Now I still need to figure out how I can make the best use of the BMP feature in lighting :)
Sorry for the off-topic, but the parallel discussion started here :)

Not really OT, but maybe too specific...
but dont spend too much time for the BMP feature because i change this in the future version to a background/ambient light.
If i ever will be ready with the next version, just have to change the half program (thats why i may moan sometimes  :) )

Has anyone noticed any correlations between experience levels & programs?

One thing I have noticed is that some of the fractal generaters I use (freeware)  do not seem to come from a secure sight.

Like anything in this digital age, one needs to be wary of what they download and where it came from.  Sometimes even the well known software distribution sites will have problematic downloads.

For many years now, I have offered downloads of several hundred fractal applications for just about every OS environment.  But I test them very thoroughly before uploading to my site.  To this day, there has never been one single complaint or problem with the files when it comes to malware.
 

One thing I have noticed, is that here there is help & support with some programs.  I have been doing this for just under a yr. now.  (self taught)  I have tried a few "freewares"  Chaospro, Chaoscope, Fractal Forge, Fractal explorer & most recently Mandelbulb3d Jesse's program?  I t appears that here that is the main program.  Which I'm really liking it>  Could the problem be with the other programs... is that developer is MIA?

FractalExplorer has a Site with all kinds of Tutorials and info as well as a Mailing list keeping subscribers to it up to date with the goings on with FE users, That's where I got Started with Fractals. Most Freebie apps have no support because no monies are generated by sales of it to support anything dedicated to it.

FractalExplorer has a Site with all kinds of Tutorials and info as well as a Mailing list keeping subscribers to it up to date with the goings on with FE users, That's where I got Started with Fractals. Most Freebie apps have no support because no monies are generated by sales of it to support anything dedicated to it.
[/quote]

yes I love FE... buuut is does not do 3D.  Yes I found 3d landscape, but it won't take other images.  Also I  noticed that here on FF there will be forums/galleries that arew closed.  Hard to get folks into specific programs that way.  Or at least other programs that "management" are not into..  Everything is political!  lol

> Also I  noticed that here on FF there will be forums/galleries that arew closed

???? As far as I know the only closed galleries/forums are the old completed competitions....but then again it's not something I check.

You didn't specify 2d or 3d, you just mentioned FE and I knew it is a heavily supported app. I rarely use it anymore but it is still near and dear because it started me on this amazing journey into the Fractalverse. As far as FractalForums, I had never heard of this place until I went in search of MB3D because of the amazing Images from it I was seeing at Renderosity and DA. Since, I've learned more about Fractals here than any other site, that's Fractals themselves, their generation, not apps. Most of the details goes right over my head, Ohm' law and Kirchhoff' law , some Sinewave analysis is about as advanced as I get in Mathmatics, but the threory is compelling reading nonetheless. As far as apps go it seems to me trial and error is the best teacher, haven't found one yet that can't be figured out within a few hours of use, maybe not master it but use it, mastering anything takes time. hell I've been using MojoWorld for 2.5 years and still figuring it out but hey, serendipity is the spice of life.

Closed galleries ... fractal explorer, chaoscope, chaospro, yep just about all the programs I use. lol

When I 1st started this thread I was only using chaospro. Now that I've added a few I noticed that the program I use depends on what I want to accomplish. There is no perfect program.

Those specific galleries are not closed.  People just do not post in them that often.  The only ones that I know of which are closed are the Contest Galleries.


Now that is a very truthful and insightful statement.  Something I have been telling people for almost two decades now when it comes to fractal software.  The more one learns about what is available, and learns what each is capable of, the more they will be able to accomplish.

But some people would rather waste many hours, if not many days or weeks, trying to get something created under a specific application, instead of just using what others have already made available.  (I think it comes down to hardheadedness and stubbornness.)
 

NAHEE....

In reference to chaospro gallery being closed.

1st link is to the gallery, 2nd is the discussion we had about it when I 1st joined.

http://www.fractalforums.com/chaospro-gallery/

http://www.fractalforums.com/chaospro-gallery/within-01/

But some people would rather waste many hours, if not many days or weeks, trying to get something created under a specific application, instead of just using what others have already made available.  (I think it comes down to hardheadedness and stubbornness.)

[/quote]

I my case as a beginner I thought it would just get confusing to start all over with another program.  I wanted to get a better grip on the "process" of creating fractals.  Also chaospro gives a good variety for sampling.

I think you're confusing the gallery with the threads it creates in the forum.

The gallery is fine, comments on images can be left there.

But not all sections of the gallery create  threads here in the forum, and all of those threads are locked regardless regardless of which section of the gallery they came from.

Nothing is broken, it's just the way it's set up.

The gallery is separate from the forum.

Hope that helps...

AHHHH A very unique set up..

You're welcome.

Glad you like the set up.

I must be getting olds-himers!   :D  I don't remember saying "thankyou"  but I do remember a long time ago (in another galaxy?) you saying that you w0uld ask Trifox  :police:  to change it! :banginghead: :banginghead: :banginghead:

I asked, and could have sworn I let you know that some boards were cut from that activity to keep the forums from becoming overwhelmed with just images and no room for discussion.  More than just the ones you noticed were kept from creating threads.

Most of us read the forum posts from the "recent posts" section for the convenience of having the posts all in one place.

Too many images makes it harder to find the discussions.

That's what Trifox meant by "spam" coming from the gallery.  Too much of anything - even pretty pictures - gets in the way.  It was an effort to strike a balance between being an Art Site, and a Discussion Forum.   

I don't feel like searching to find out if I mentioned that or not - so I'll just apologize if I failed to relay that information.   :-*

1. Post image in gallery (any appropriate section).
2. Start thread or post reply in relevant forum section relating to the image and include the image URL in the post yourself using the img tags (plus the url tags too if you want foks to be able to link directly to the gallery image from the post).

For example using:


Produces:

(http://www.fractalforums.com/gallery/2/141_13_04_10_3_39_45.jpeg) (http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2066)

That'll work! ;D