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Fractal Math, Chaos Theory & Research => Mandelbulb Renderings => Topic started by: cbuchner1 on February 15, 2010, 12:00:52 AM




Title: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: cbuchner1 on February 15, 2010, 12:00:52 AM
Essentially, it's a "wiggle image" creating a stereo effect, but the browser wiggles it for you.

Here is a link I just found on digg.com:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/lifehacker/2010/02/3d2.gif

I think applying this technique to Mandelbulbs and other 3D fractals can produce a nice
effect without requiring any 3D glasses.



Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: knighty on February 15, 2010, 09:40:24 PM
Nice idea.  :yes:
I've just given it a try.
(http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp36/jnosof/Mandelbulb/essai2.gif)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: kram1032 on February 15, 2010, 11:42:17 PM
It kinda works... However, I guess a zoom where the whole M-set covers the background would work better: That other 3D-gif especially works due to the background houses... A scene that offers quite some scales and a nice perspective at the same time :) Try to find something like that in the Mset and the 3D-effect will improve a lot I guess :)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 16, 2010, 09:26:10 AM
Fun stuff... my 20 cents... O0
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4362111954_1e7e484832_o.gif)



Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 16, 2010, 10:03:06 AM
Better antialiasing, slightly less wiggling...

Getting dizzy...  O0
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2686/4362166054_47fc5a6182_o.gif)



Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: bib on February 16, 2010, 11:16:50 AM
Fun :)
Just a suggestion to stress what kram said about the background houses: the perspective effect would be stronger if the background moved more than the foreground, I mean if the rotation axis would go through an edge of the bulb instead of the center in the above picture.


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 16, 2010, 11:47:30 AM
Fun :)
Just a suggestion to stress what kram said about the background houses: the perspective effect would be stronger if the background moved more than the foreground, I mean if the rotation axis would go through an edge of the bulb instead of the center in the above picture.

I see what you mean, I think I should "rotate" the camera instead of moving it, I'll give it a try ;)



Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 16, 2010, 12:50:55 PM
Wasn't that easy I'm afraid, camera rotating looked just like camera rotating.  :tease2:

Maybe it is possible to implement your idea in some other app, bib.


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: bib on February 16, 2010, 02:08:00 PM
If you use ultrafracrtal I guess you will have to rotate the camera AND change the target coordinates


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: kram1032 on February 16, 2010, 02:26:18 PM
Nice stuff :)

I think, the very best way to do it would be a motif which rotates exactly around that axis where the "main subject" lies... Which hardly ever would exactly be camera rotation...
It would be "move the camera around a circle which has the center going through the main subject".... (and let the view-direction follow along^^)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: hobold on February 16, 2010, 02:34:41 PM
I think for the most striking depth cue, you want both foreground and background to move slightly, in opposing directions. The point that the camera looks at should be at medium depth. The baby crocodile "photo" that was linked in the first post uses the ground floor as an additional depth cue, a little bit like the old parallax scrolling shooter games from the 8 bit home computer days.

If you can, try to have details spread over the whole range from near to far.


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 16, 2010, 02:35:29 PM
Nice stuff :)

I think, the very best way to do it would be a motif which rotates exactly around that axis where the "main subject" lies... Which hardly ever would exactly be camera rotation...
It would be "move the camera around a circle which has the center going through the main subject".... (and let the view-direction follow along^^)

Thanks  O0
Yepp, that is exactly what is going on in cbuchners first image...
My images gives more the feeling of sloppy pudding ;)

J

I think for the most striking depth cue, you want both foreground and background to move slightly, in opposing directions. The point that the camera looks at should be at medium depth. The baby crocodile "photo" that was linked in the first post uses the ground floor as an additional depth cue, a little bit like the old parallax scrolling shooter games from the 8 bit home computer days.

If you can, try to have details spread over the whole range from near to far.

You are both right, but I dont think I can do this with pixelbender, well I probably can, but I can't. ;)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: kram1032 on February 16, 2010, 02:37:48 PM
Yeah, as said, in that case, the fore- and background aren't filled out enough. So search for a nice spot in the Mset where you have a more or less clear foreground, midground, background situation, focus and rotate around the midpoint and there you go :)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 16, 2010, 02:39:49 PM
Yeah, as said, in that case, the fore- and background aren't filled out enough. So search for a nice spot in the Mset where you have a more or less clear foreground, midground, background situation, focus and rotate around the midpoint and there you go :)

Easy! ;)

I think I settle with my blue earthquake pudding  O0

Or, maybe one more... Sheik Yerbouti !  ::)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2801/4362034735_f0bd022ba7_o.gif)



Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2010, 04:54:35 PM
that paralax effect in the last picture is very good, and gives a good feel of the depth of the image


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2010, 05:36:26 PM
If you use ultrafracrtal I guess you will have to rotate the camera AND change the target coordinates

i do not really get it working in uf, i changed the x coordinate of the target by a small amount, and tried changing the rotation
of the camera ...

isnt it more like, keeping the focal point the same, and just move the camera ?! on a sphere around that point ?!

hard to achieve with current parameters i think , but an easy example would be great!


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: kram1032 on February 16, 2010, 08:05:12 PM
I don't really see how the "stable" point (the axis of rotation) is in the middle of the depth here but I agree withTrifox :)

And yup Trifox, same focus, camera around a sphere but actually on a circle parallel to the "horizon" of the current view... (I guess, tilted views wouldn't work as well...)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: bib on February 16, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Trifox you're right. It's not not that easy using Dave's UF's formula to correctly set up parameters to get the desired effect. Here is what I got after a few minutes try. Could be better, but I prefer doing .avi :)
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1836/animbulb.gif) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/animbulb.gif/)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
i think just 2 frames of animation are enough, i like this method to create some fancifull depth images

so, you are just working with camera angle x and focal point x ?
or twiggle i the x/y/z  .


anyway, that last image if bib looks more like rotating ... but nice parallax



Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: bib on February 16, 2010, 09:42:53 PM
i think just 2 frames of animation are enough, i like this method to create some fancifull depth images

so, you are just working with camera angle x and focal point x ?
or twiggle i the x/y/z  .


anyway, that last image if bib looks more like rotating ... but nice parallax



I just played with camera rotation. Hence the rotation effect and why I'm not satisfied. Anyway, not a big deal...:)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: Timeroot on February 17, 2010, 02:59:49 AM
Cool pictures. Has anyone tried moving the camera in a "circle", rather than a "line"? That is, when you rotate the camera around the central axis, you move it along a great circle of the sphere centered on the focus. But you could move the camera in very small circles on that sphere instead - one a bit from the left, then one a bit from the top, then one a bit from the right, then one a bit from the bottom, repeat. It might give slightly more depth perception, albeit being more dizzying.  O0


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: Tglad on March 05, 2010, 07:25:25 AM
I just discovered 'start3D' which creates the in-between frames for you. Just tried it. It has some artefacts, but its brand new so maybe it'll get a bit better.

http://www.start3d.com/en/3809136018/0001/1176401090250029 (http://www.start3d.com/en/3809136018/0001/1176401090250029)

Looks like you can also embed it into web pages.


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: kram1032 on March 06, 2010, 12:10:33 AM
there it works pretty good :D
It actually looks kind of 3D :)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: LesPaul on March 06, 2010, 11:58:03 AM
I'd love to see some of these in "cross-eye" stereo.  That's a really simple way to get a very convincing 3D effect.  :)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: David Makin on March 06, 2010, 02:43:22 PM
I'd love to see some of these in "cross-eye" stereo.  That's a really simple way to get a very convincing 3D effect.  :)

I've never been able to get that to work for me :(


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: kram1032 on March 06, 2010, 02:45:22 PM
For me, that worked in younger ages. Now it doesn't for some reason. :(

However, it might be a good idea to mix multiple ways to enhance 3Dimensionality.
That is, movement like this tumbling together with cross-eye view and other things. :)


Title: Re: Not-so-Novel 3D technique
Post by: Tglad on March 07, 2010, 02:04:07 AM
Well if you look at the link, you can choose multiple ways at the same time, e.g. cross-eyed and movement.
You just upload a single image for each eye and it lets you uses wobble, and either cross eye, parallel eye, or different coloured glasses in combination.

I'm sure that once polarised 3d displays become more popular there will be a button for viewing them in this format.
I'm kind of tempted to take 2 shots with every photo I take and upload them to here, but there are a few problems with this site, it seems to only display the pics in low res, its interpolation has bugs, and the 'buy' button worries me, too commercial already.