Title: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 13, 2016, 10:02:11 PM This is something I have problems with since I started with fragmentarium and puzzles me since. It doesn't matter which version of Fragmentarium I use, it was like this on my old computer with a very bad AMD onboard gpu, and it is the same with my new computer with nvidia 980Ti... I really wonder if it could be the driver, as I have and had win7 64-bits, home on the olde pc, pro on the new one?
This is what it looks like (on the right print-screen) (http://orig00.deviantart.net/7105/f/2016/257/5/f/renderprob_by_sabine62-dahn2w4.png) It's a test with In the blue by timemit, but used different raytracer as I do not have the one Tim used himself. As far as I have tested, it does not so much matter which raytracer I use, dark areas often are rendered in really trippy colours :} Any ideas what is happening and how I can remedy this behaviour? Code: #info Amazing Surface by Kali - Based on Tglad's Amazing Box Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 13, 2016, 11:44:30 PM i get this today with .26 build .. seems an AO issue!
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 14, 2016, 12:11:47 AM Tim, purple? :}
Might be AO-related, but if I lower the contrast in Post (which might be closely related with AO for all I know???) all renders nicely (and bleakly) :} Hm... You're not on win7(64-bits) by any chance? Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 14, 2016, 11:56:16 AM @Sabine.. no i'm on evil win10.. I think it is with DE-KN8 & DE-KN2cr11 and the implementation of multiple AO options inside 3Dickulus's new.26 build...that s where I am getting issues. especially bad with Asurf imported from other builds. of course I might be totally wrong and i just haven't set things correctly. Any more info needed folks?
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 14, 2016, 01:37:38 PM Hm, I do not think it's build-related as I have/had the problems in syntopia's version, scorpion's version and some previous versions by 3dickulus too... I also do not know about the *kn*-raytracers. Just tested your code again with DE-raytracer, and it's even worse... :}
And on the other hand, Crist-JRoger's PK-hybrids from his pack render merrily with DE-Kn2cr11.frag, and there are really enough dark spots in there... It can't be the formulas, can it?... Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 14, 2016, 03:07:56 PM Hm, I do not think it's build-related as I have/had the problems in syntopia's version, scorpion's version and some previous versions by 3dickulus too... I also do not know about the *kn*-raytracers. Just tested your code again with DE-raytracer, and it's even worse... :} And on the other hand, Crist-JRoger's PK-hybrids from his pack render merrily with DE-Kn2cr11.frag, and there are really enough dark spots in there... It can't be the formulas, can it?... ok.. i only got this on the new build .. at first it worked fine and i had replaced de-kn8 with de-kn2cr11 .(on a pseudo kleinian so not formula problem)..then after some light/AO and bloom adjustment I started to get issues (only in render and not in preview) and today when I tried asurf in v.26 it also has this issue! Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 14, 2016, 06:42:08 PM Usually this issues happens in Post tab when increase contrast or exposure or gamma. I got it on Ati and Intel GPU. Intel GPU has more color issues and every time when touch contrast slider.
Nvidia works well without this crazy colors in dark areas. Sabine, I think your errors have the same reason. But really strange that window-render is clean... And now I tested your frag on my Nvidia - it's clean. What render size you did? p.s. Contrast = 3.882229 - crazy :o and Detail = -4.25089 - for what? -3.5... - 3.7 really enough for most ultra quality :dink: p.p.s. Try original 1.0.0 by Syntopia, maybe it helps. I use this version. Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 14, 2016, 07:41:11 PM Crist : ) so try and find the higher limit setting on these that doesn't cause a problem or do not adjust at all? Like how sometimes if you use to much reflection it blacks out and you have to back down?
contrast...it was the only way I could to get it to really define the thing, i guess in tone mapping 5 I could have set it lower. why does it matter ? .. Detail = -4.25089 - for what .. to go searching through the fractal in the little details as you travel,find something interesting then re adjust lighting etc to suit new position.. it wasn't for quality in the picture just a remnant from looking about. also remember that I just twiddle buttons and look for pwetty pictures.. ! :beer: Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 14, 2016, 08:40:22 PM so try and find the higher limit setting on these that doesn't cause a problem or do not adjust at all? I can't test all variations of frag-version/operation-system/GPU/driver-version. So I tell about what I tested. And nvidia shows best result. I never used contrast higer than 2.5. Maybe there is some issues in color calculations, because 1 means contrast=100% and nobody knows what will happens when contrast=350% for example. This part of shader based on photoshop filter. Somebody who knows shaders can tell how it works.Like how sometimes if you use to much reflection it blacks out and you have to back down? Give .frag with all components. And show your render.Earlier versions of De-Kn has black dots, now render much more cleaner. Great thanks to Knighty for fixes, so this problem was solved. See this topic ) http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=20680.0 contrast...it was the only way I could to get it to really define the thing, i guess in tone mapping 5 I could have set it lower. why does it matter ? .. Yes. Tone mapping=4 not the best way for high contrast image.Detail = -4.25089 It kills my GPU :'(Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 14, 2016, 09:01:15 PM :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:
Sergei: Tested in Syntopia and....... ta-daah, all well... No patches! Thank you for helping troubleshoot, great tip to try that version for comparison! I had trouble with one of syntopia's previous versions (0.9 something?, cannot remember), but I think that was my old gpu (low quality amd). Rendered the exact same settings, only changed Iterations for asurf to lower value to make it render quicker: 1200x900, padding 100%, 100 subframes (just a test) in 1.26 (patches!), and (because I have no idea how to set tile size in syntopia's) 1188x1012, padding 100% and 100 subframes in version 1.0.0 (no patches!) Something seems not to go well between my gpu and 1.26? Like Tim, I am hunting for detail always ;) I am really sorry it kills your gpu... did kill mine in the past! Now with new gpu it does not seem to matter much. And the bizarre amount of contrast - I needed it because I couldn't get it right with AO/light, all stayed just greyish. I'm just a beginner and most of fragmentarium is still unknown territory for me :) I really am monkey at keyboard :yes: Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 14, 2016, 09:10:47 PM In the zip below all files for the render
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 14, 2016, 09:32:16 PM Sabine, I don't know what 3dickulus do with Fragmentarium ;D He makes a lot for animation and other tips really not needed for simple rendering in .bmp or .png file. No any difference in 1.0.0 and higer - I mean difference in rendering process or quality or stability... So if you doing simple render, you'll don't see difference.
I said earlier, you don't need use 100% padding. "Squandering" ))) Use tonemapping=5 or 1 for high contrast. Set AO>1, set camlight=0, use little ambient. Set a lot of AO. Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 14, 2016, 09:49:57 PM In the zip below all files for the render So I have Fragmentarium-1.0.24 and has the same red noise. Saving to EXR looks better if you don't like 1.0.0 :-\I tried to reproduce your settings with tonemapping=5 :dink: Rendered well with 3dickulus version. Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 15, 2016, 10:50:34 AM thanks for all that Crist(Sergei?!) .. question ..if camlight is 0 then I can't use it to influence colour balancing ?! ( I like to use say orange and blue lighting to create contrast with pos and main lights)
Sorry i hurt your GPU! :spgloomy: I will be careful to make things as uncomplicated as they can be before posting :) the reflections issue I get is this.. over certain limits it completely blacks out my view window (all files and screenshot in zip of point where reflections increase blacks out screen..this case at 0.316 ish) image looks like posted one in render without higher reflection level. I Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 15, 2016, 02:58:01 PM Okay, I'll check it on home PC. But dude, why you use old code? I really don't understand why evetyone runs for latest Fragmentarium version, and uses old renderers at the same time ;D ... really strange :-\ I got the same renders when used reflexions . It completely depends from DE calculate. One frctal will be noisy, second - cleaner. Maybe FudgeFactor/Detail/Dithering can helps at some situations...
Сергей my name on russian ) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 15, 2016, 03:34:43 PM Sergej, I have tested your settings and works well with 3dickulus version now. Still do not understand why syntopia's behaves so different, but oh well. Might stick for the time being with syntopia's version as I am not doing anything except very basic stuff and make a lot of strange mistakes probably;} And yes, I will try and remember not to squander;) I just didn't think of it in the heat of things :fiery:
Thank you very much, also for the AO-settings! :) Tim, I have looked at your settings as well (nosey!). Been to all tabs and sliders, and only get sort of an image again when I set details to -6,7 !!! I really think it could well be the raytracer. I tried to reproduce with DE-Kn2cr11 (handles reflection in steps of 1 to 4, no problems with 1-4), DE-RaytracerX (same reflection slider as in your version, no problems, but you would have to redo your colours/lights)... I am sure Sergei will find more:) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 15, 2016, 04:30:13 PM Crist- yes it was an old image/fractal that I was looking at again last month and this thread reminded me of the reflections issue.. I will try and run it with a newer tracer and find the comparable light settings...having trouble getting Patryks one running..de-kn2cr11 is fine.
Sabine- they are there to be used abused and hopefully enjoyed : ) (amazed no one has d/l the Asurf earlier in the thread) a v nice spiral spot. Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 15, 2016, 10:45:51 PM Still do not understand why syntopia's behaves so different, but oh well. Because he created this program )Thank you very much, also for the AO-settings! :) Just play with them all and find a ot of combinationsCrist- yes it was an old image/fractal that I was looking at again last month and this thread reminded me of the reflections issue.. I will try and run it with a newer tracer and find the comparable light settings...having trouble getting Patryks one running..de-kn2cr11 is fine. I remember that pseudo-kleinian is not best fractal for perfect reflexions with DE. Need use extremely low FudgeFactor and very high datails. So your settings gives little better result on GI.Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 16, 2016, 02:55:53 AM tried the frags presented here and they all seem to render as expected for the given settings, like with Detail around -4 and Fudgefactor @ 1.0 you can expect anomalies in things like reflections, especially when camera is very close to a surface, but when you use Detail @ -5 and Fudgefactor @0.08 the reflections look ok
there should be no difference in the render between v1.0.0 and v1.0.26 if you are using the same frags because all of the DE and color calculating is done by the frags and not by Fragmentarium program, I have not altered the functionality of the engine ( the mechanism that presents fragment rendering to the screen ) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 16, 2016, 07:13:24 PM curious about the red bits, I noticed something that may contribute to odd behavior...
in the beginning of your frag, you need to #define things first, then include any extra files, and then include the raytracer like this... Code: #info Amazing Surface by Kali - Based on Tglad's Amazing Box it's a dependance thing, the raytracer needs MathUtils and #defines setup first, the order is dictated by dependance, none of the examples/tests presented here (in this thread) follow this fundamental programming logic. p.s. it would be a good idea to fix this before trying to figure out if there is a problem anywhere else in the rest of the frag source. p.p.s the red bits in dark areas are likely a clamping issue where some var goes beyond max or negative Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Crist-JRoger on September 16, 2016, 08:38:42 PM 3dickulus, red noise just on your versions :dink: And there is no problem :dink:
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 16, 2016, 09:15:59 PM Thank you very much for taking a look at this phenomenon, 3Dickulus, as it's really looking very weird to me still :) On screen all looks nice and well, hit render, and it comes up with the weirdest colour inferno;) And it still 'happens' that I render something thinking all is well, and then there's this little corner in a what is supposed to be a green area that turns up in flaming blue;) Need to stay alert, and all is well as a lot can be done with Crist-JRogers tips on working with different tone mapping/camlight/AO, and in reply to your first comment I'll be good and stay away from weird Detail and Fudge factor settings;}
Thank you also for the tip on the dependencies! Have changed them in my test files and will keep your comment in mind in the future, but for the coloured bits they make no difference: if my settings are weird (especially using lots of contrast in Post (which I now know I shouldn't)), I get colour patches :crazyeyes: Quote p.p.s the red bits in dark areas are likely a clamping issue where some var goes beyond max or negative The interesting thing is that the patches only occur in the darkest areas. If I go easy on the contrast in Post and correct with adjusting DetailAO on AO_ambient (AO-group in DE-Kn2cr11.frag), I can solve things most of the times. Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 17, 2016, 02:40:55 AM rendering the frags in this thread I get images that look correct (to me)
sabine62, Detail and Fudge factor settings are fine as long as you remember that when the camera is very close to a surface you need more detail, less fudge and higher DE iteration count. this is a scaled down final render from color_issues_1-24--.frag Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 17, 2016, 09:05:35 AM Quote sabine62, Detail and Fudge factor settings are fine as long as you remember that when the camera is very close to a surface you need more detail, less fudge and higher DE iteration count. I'll keep that in mind, 3Dickulus, thanks again:) Quote this is a scaled down final render from color_issues_1-24--.frag This is the only one in this thread that works well ;) Crist-JRoger tinkered with my original settings (corrected them) and came with this one as solution. If you'd like to see what I got thanks to my weird settings, try the testfrag.zip bit further down :dink:Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 17, 2016, 10:05:50 AM that one renders fine too, I can't get that red stuff :hmh:
I did find a cool spot just around the corner though, rendering now ;) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 17, 2016, 12:52:48 PM ;D Looking forward to your find, Dick! ;D
But very interesting that you cannot reproduce the behaviour, as there's three of us experiencing it. That could mean that it might be more hardware/OS related? :suspious: Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 17, 2016, 09:30:48 PM I have tried the posted frags and the code listed in the first post and fiddled with the settings, the only one that has red in it is because of the red floor reflecting on the fractal surface, that disappears when the floor is turned off.
here's a location that I found interesting http://www.fractalforums.com/images-showcase-(rate-my-fractal)/got-issues/ Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 18, 2016, 09:19:15 PM But very interesting that you cannot reproduce the behaviour, as there's three of us experiencing it. That could mean that it might be more hardware/OS related? :suspious: indeed, there is a wide range of subtle differences between individual machines, I can only provide exes compiled on a Win10 machine with Core2 Duo with an nVidia gfx card.some of my rules for using this proggy on consumer level machines are: . compile from source if you can, that way you should get an exe that is optimized for your hardware. . never run it in fullscreen mode . always use the smallest tolerable desktop view . always render final images with an optimal tile size the optimal tile size depends on your gfx card, here are the specs for my card... Code: CUDA Device Query (Driver API) statically linked version the most important factors being... Code: Warp size: 32 with this setup I find that 256x144 tile size usually renders quickly and keeps the desktop useable while rendering, too small and it takes (a little) longer to render, too large and the desktop lags or becomes unusable. Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 19, 2016, 10:34:07 AM @Dick.. so from those stats how do you arrive a those final settings? (that is pretty much how I use it although with a 480x270 window) and I could do with learning how to compile my own!! pointers?
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 19, 2016, 02:39:16 PM trial and error to arrive at those numbers :embarrass:
on Windows, when you install Qt (from their installer from their web site) also install mingw and CMake, that will add a DOS window icon to your startup menu, running that gives you a console window and sets all of the environment vars for using mingw-gcc compiler, at the DOS prompt, cd to the Fragmentarium-1.0.26 folder, type 'mkmingw' <enter> and that should compile everything, you need the zip file from my site that has '-pre' or '-full' suffix (precompiled OpenEXR or full sources) the Fragmentarium-1.0.26 folder is expected to be in C:\Fragmentarium-1.0.26\ if you put it somewhere else you will have to edit the mkmingw.bat file so the paths work for the new location (just put it in C: to start and move it once you get it figured out) after all is compiled you can use "cmake-gui .." command (cd to build folder in Fragmentarium-source/ first and don't forget the " ..") this will give you access to changing compiletime vars like with/without NV and OpenEXR support. if you have never done this before I suggest going through the process with simple examples and how-to's to get familiar with the environment before trying to compile Fragmentarium and read the Building_With_OpenEXR.txt and README files. :beer: I'll help where I can :D Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 19, 2016, 02:50:59 PM ok great, I do have QT/mingw(says it's mingw32 so i need 64 for 64 system?) . CMake and Qt.. . . I think I took a look at trying to do it before and shat myself .. .. I really don't have any experience at all so I will try and find some simple howto's .. . I know you aren't a win person but help would be greatly appreciated.. having just spent the weekend getting a new C 4 D crack up and running i'm almost out of code messing humour : ) cheers for this.. will pm you once i'm ready to try it out and you can hold my hand :dink:
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 20, 2016, 02:16:32 AM ok, it should compile with the bat file using the mingw dos console or with Qt's Creator using the Fragmentarium.pro file
let me know when you're ready and we can give it a go :beer: Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 21, 2016, 05:08:33 PM 3dickulus and timemit, could I please join the party? I have never compiled a program myself, never got the nerve to dive into the mysteries of Make... probably should have, but... ;)
I could very much do with someone holding my hand! :) I am confused already finding the right QT-version and where to download it. Qt 5.7.0 for Windows 32-bit (MinGW 5.3.0, 1.1 GB) from qt.io (http://qt.io) ? :embarrass: CMake from cmake.org? Or should the qt have cmake? Aaaaaarrrrggghhh, sorry for all those questions! Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 22, 2016, 02:55:30 AM the only bad questions are the one that are not asked, yes from qt.io and cmake.org
my win box has Qt 5.4.2 and mingw 4.9.1 but later versions should be ok too read the mkmingw.bat file to see the steps for compiling the whole thing, the OpenEXR library only needs to be compiled once ( or use the pre-built one ) after that you can just compile Fragmentarium. sabine62 has revealed a bug (blatant oversight on my part) with path/file names that I will hopefully have fixed very soon, this doesn't affect compiling but spaces and dots in the path name may prevent saving files properly.... I'm on it ;) edit: seems to be the "unique filename" feature that's causing a problem Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Tim Emit on September 22, 2016, 09:34:34 AM @ both.. i'm fine with that ..Sabine you can probably help me also.. I guess it is just all of us being here at the same time .. Dick are you US time? me n Sabine are probably only a couple of hours different. I have work today but would have time this evening GMT 7pm onwards till about 1 or 2am .. .. be fun to try at least ! ,, I will see what your replies are... also I have some time on Friday : )
Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 22, 2016, 11:16:05 AM @ both.. i'm fine with that ..Sabine you can probably help me also.. I guess it is just all of us being here at the same time .. Dick are you US time? me n Sabine are probably only a couple of hours different. I have work today but would have time this evening GMT 7pm onwards till about 1 or 2am .. .. be fun to try at least ! ,, I will see what your replies are... also I have some time on Friday : ) Erm.. what am I missing? :) Should we have a meeting of some sort? If yes, which way, because I off everything, need to prepare:) PS Doubt I can help you, Tim, I was rather counting on you helping me ;) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 22, 2016, 02:31:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, West Coast North America :tool:
It's a big project with lots of files and some bugs, probably not the best thing to start on for beginners, look at some tutorials and small examples like "Hello world!", try them first, this will take some reading, some studying and some practice, and when you feel comfortable with compiling, grab the source and give it a go :D my time and resources are limited but I will help you folks as much as I can :) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: Sabine on September 23, 2016, 12:36:18 PM You mean it's not like 'Open a program, drop your source into it and click Go!'? :D :D :D
Will have a good look at how-to's and examples, Dick, and give a shout when (not if!) I need some help ;) Title: Re: Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render Post by: 3dickulus on September 24, 2016, 01:11:04 AM :alien: more like, you have a few million switches and the right combination will do what you want, a never ending journey of discovery ;) I still haven't found those Black/Blue/Red/Yellow areas in render :hmh: |