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Title: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 13, 2016, 10:03:03 AM

endangered species

(http://nocache-nocookies.digitalgott.com/gallery/19/4392_13_08_16_10_03_03.jpeg)

http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19505

annother a_surf
have fun!

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: Buddhi on August 14, 2016, 11:10:55 AM

Wow! It's beautiful shape!

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: paigan0 on August 14, 2016, 02:49:17 PM

It's a fern and an octopus--a ferntopus? Octofern? It's beautiful, whatever it's called! Amazing Surf (which mclarekin tells me is actually short for "Amazing SURFACE"!) is such an amazing formula to find incredible vistas and scenes with! Parts of it look like bamboo as well (Octo-boo? Octo-bam? Bamtopus?) :D

Steve

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 14, 2016, 10:30:52 PM

Thanks a lot. Glad you like it!.
I had some expieriences with a_surf back in 2012 with m3d, so I had a little clou about valid start parameters. Unfortunately I did not manage to reproduce exactly, what I did back then - with or without angle conversion. But don't take this as serious issue, as I also doubt, that I could produce something equal to the one below (or above) in m3d. Every implementation has its pros and cons. Yours at least is very fast. As almost everyting in v2. Even hybrids are no barrier. A big praise for the current version 2.08-x. I'm looking forward to fiddling out, what is possible here... :beer:

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: mclarekin on August 15, 2016, 07:59:25 AM

About amazing surf. I think the difference is that in M3D the rotation happens after the addCpixel vector, whereas Mandelbulber default has the addCpixel being the last translation in the loop.

In theory if Rotation is not used then, both programs should render the same fractal,

If "Don't add global C constant" is ticked, and you place an addCpixel in slot 2 in hybrid mode, then the rotation should work. But I have not tested it :)

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 15, 2016, 10:08:51 AM

Tanks mclarekin for the hint. When I have the time, I'll give it a try. Difficult to imagine. The second slot should still be the last in line...
At least there once was and I guess still is annother difference discussed and solved here http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=13130.msg51114#msg51114 (http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=13130.msg51114#msg51114). I still use the provided tool, to carry rotbox params between the two programms.

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: mclarekin on August 15, 2016, 11:44:53 AM

opps got that wrong, should be
Slot 1 aSurf , with Do not use globalC ,and rotations set to zero
Slot2 AddCpixel c.x c.y swap (this transform does not work properly in V2.08 so we have to wait for V2.09 to test this out). If it is a Julia then place a addition_constant transform in Slot 2 and enter the Julia constants.
Slot 3 Rotation.

The whole process may be :
you would have to address that original rotation difference between M3D and Mandelbulber
then address the z axis direction change that happened, between 1.21 and v2.0, by importing 1.21 setting in to V2.08
then address the rotation transform being in a different place, by using hybrid mode.

I have added an addCpixel c.x c.y swap option, before the rotation on the Amazing surf UI. That will remove the last step in the process.

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 15, 2016, 09:46:03 PM

Thanks mclarekin for the detailed explanation. I tried out, with no significant change. In a zoomed out overview, I observed a quite obvious difference. I needed to adjust the min radius a 1000 times smaller in mandelbulber to gain a most equal appearance (0,1 in m3d equals 0,0001 in mandelbulber). Still under investigation...
But again: DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. The formula is good as is! Maybe you can develop an m3d mod, but please don't replace this! :police:
I am sure the relation is NOT linear. I tried this parameter here (at 0,01) and m3d showed up NOTHING at 10. So the divergence must be something more nifty to handle...

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: Buddhi on August 15, 2016, 09:48:53 PM

Maybe it's good that some of formulas are a little different than in MB3D. In this way it's not boring to see always the same images :D

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 15, 2016, 10:09:14 PM

Quote from: Buddhi on August 15, 2016, 09:48:53 PM

Maybe it's good that some of formulas are a little different than in MB3D. In this way it's not boring to see always the same images :D

Not maybe - it is good! This a_surf provides new possibilities, that want to be explored. And btw I currently have a lot of fun, to hunt theese little differences! ;D

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: mclarekin on August 16, 2016, 04:05:51 AM

There are currently lots of amazing _surf variations in Mandelbulber to be tested by users . In Amazing surf multi we have the choice of five fold types to start with. If we are adding addCpixel then there is all the possible c.x c.y c.z swap combinations (and in V2.09 these can alternate at each iteration.) Place , say, a Benesi Mag Forward before Amazing Surf Multi in hybrid mode and we have another set of variations. By adding a bit of z scale to any amazing surf produces some more variation (and can reduce the holes if it is too thin.) ABoxModKaliEiiffie in dev V2.09 , is set up so it can be yet another type of amazing surf.

The possibilities are so damn infinite that a single user would need a long time to try them all out. ;D Which is a good thing ;D

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 16, 2016, 09:39:48 AM

The possibilities are infinite, maybe. But the good ones are limited... O0

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: paigan0 on August 16, 2016, 11:18:10 PM

Can't wait to see that Amazing Surf GUI box that you're working on, mclarekin! Will that be in 2.09?

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: mclarekin on August 24, 2016, 09:13:27 AM

Another difference with this particular formula, ( from M3D and other Mandelbulber A surf UI's) is that Julia.x and Julia.y are also swapped outside of the formula file.. So here it is in the dev V2.09 Amazing surf multi UI , which may load in the V2.08 version.

Code:

# Mandelbulber settings file
# version 2.09
# only modified parameters
[main_parameters]
ambient_occlusion 1.28;
ambient_occlusion_enabled true;
ambient_occlusion_quality 6;
camera -0.6092615960629697 -0.4587674981777602 0.3268133327801176;
camera_distance_to_target 0.7;
camera_rotation -57.59566826290317 -3.760352934389805 175.3882152853474;
camera_top -0.01210427675605602 -0.1029157953889483 -0.9946164213120918;
DE_factor 0.331131;
detail_level 1.5;
flight_last_to_render 0;
fog_color_1 ba00 8b00 8b00;
fog_color_2 aa00 5000 5000;
fog_color_3 0900 0000 0000;
formula_1 97;
julia_c 0.444259 2.72263370274739 -0.55;
julia_mode true;
keyframe_last_to_render 0;
mat1_coloring_speed 15;
mat1_fractal_coloring_sphere_radius 0.01;
mat1_is_defined true;
mat1_specular 0.6;
mat1_specular_width 0.6;
mat1_surface_color_palette 4a4a4a c9c9c9 000000 ffffff cbcbcb ffffff ebebeb b9b9b9 4c4c4c 282828;
penetrating_lights false;
raytraced_reflections true;
target -0.0195327799247 -0.08445166646373342 0.2809049289264516;
volumetric_fog_colour_1_distance 0.2;
volumetric_fog_colour_2_distance 0.25;
volumetric_fog_distance_factor 0.25;
volumetric_fog_enabled true;
[fractal_1]
fold_color_comp_fold0 1;
mandelbox_main_rotation_enabled true;
mandelbox_rotation_main 5.89 -10.24 -8.75;
mandelbox_scale 1.17;
surfFolds_order_of_folds_2 1;
transf_addition_constant_111 1.3 1.3 1;
transf_function_enabledAy_false true;
transf_minimum_radius_05 0.0001;
transf_rotation 5.87 -10.24 -8.75;
transf_start_iterations_B 12;
[fractal_2]
[fractal_3]
[fractal_4]
[fractal_5]
[fractal_6]
[fractal_7]
[fractal_8]
[fractal_9]

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 24, 2016, 03:01:41 PM

Quote from: mclarekin on August 24, 2016, 09:13:27 AM

without giving it a try (I'm @ work), I'm pretty sure, it has nothing to do with the fundamental divergence I observed. The min R ratio is still 1/1000.
For the parameter of "machine spirit" I saw annother "anomaly" yesterday. The julia-x value has almost no influence on the form. it adds some wrinkles, thats all. @0 the object is perfectly smooth. x and z component have very different properties in that formula. (Don't take this question personal) Is it possible that x and z are mixed up somewhere in your implementation?

BTW nice sub-structure in your image!

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: taurus on August 24, 2016, 09:54:07 PM

Quote from: taurus on August 24, 2016, 03:01:41 PM

The julia-x value has almost no influence on the form. it adds some wrinkles, thats all. @0 the object is perfectly smooth.

I did a mistake here. The x component has an effect - a strong one! I think it was a mod of it and I only checked some single values. Sorry for making false conclusions! :sad1: :boooo:

Title: Re: endangered species
Post by: mclarekin on August 25, 2016, 01:23:21 AM

Clarification:

Quote

Another difference with this particular formula, ( from M3D and other Mandelbulber A surf UI's) is that Julia.x and Julia.y are also swapped outside of the formula file

This means that if a user want to use settings from another version of a-surf, the Julia.x and Julia.y parameters need to be swapped.

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Fractal Software => Mandelbulber Gallery => Topic started by: taurus on August 13, 2016, 10:03:03 AM