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I don't know why are more posting and every day at chapter "phylosophy" whick is about humanistick sciences, a domain what is wrong placed in FRACTALFORUMS.
 :hmh: :crazy:
Here might be only about mathematickal and physical. The hystory and the literature are domains enemy of maths.
The "phylosophy" chapter is like a "brother" for the chapter "non-fractal chit chat".
If at a forum contain too many postes at his off topic, mean that main domain of this forums don't work fine.
Would be pity that fractals to be out of bussiness.

 

Fractals are not just about maths. They are patterns. If we recognise them in other things it is still a good thing to talk about, right? There might actually be mathematical rules which explain those patterns. Even in history, literature and other subjects that aren't directly connected to mathematics.

a small off topic section is ok, like redshifter stated, the huge underlying chaos theory is far far more than just numbers and pixels

hi hgjf2..
Maybe it's due to a languiage barrier.. but if I understand you right, I absolutely oppose your opinion.
saying fractals are just about math is a very harmful view for the overall topic of fractals.
fractals are in my opinion "out of business" since the 80ies hype, because people focussed too much on just the pure math, forgetting how omnipresent they are in nature.
it's all because some  :fiery: decided that fractals have to be scale invariant to infinity! but this is not how our world works. this fixation upon infinity is abolut nonsense.

it is like saying we won't study geometric objects with 4 corners if they are not perfect squares. we'll just ignore them, as if they weren't there at all.
this is so limiting and has NO positive effect or good reason whatsoever!!  :banginghead:

sorry for the strong words but I really loathe this approach and that this view has made it to dominate the study of fractals. And I'm, really sick of having to fight this view in just about any discussion regarding (less obvious) examples of fractals in nature. How about we focus on finding out why fractals are all around and what we can learn from that!

funny that you especially name "literature". Fractals are in there too. (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/27/scientists-reveal-multifractal-structure-of-finnegans-wake-james-joyce)
Fractal patterns in history, major events are distributed pretty much according to zipfs law in a fractal hierarchy.

limiting the topic of fractals to mathematics (and trippy pictures) is the worst thing you can do for the advance in fractal studies.
I truly believe that this view has inhibited progress for mankind and science in a dramatic way.

there is no place more appropriate for these "off topic"-discussions than here!

as long as people keeps on posting a forum is alive O0
forums are dinosaurs in fakebook age but sometimes they still shine. As long as people stays here fractals won't die - that's an ounce of philosophy :dink:

Look up "The Philosophy Of Math" to see how integrated the two topics really are!

Even things like Irrational Numbers sparked huge debates when first proposed.  It's rumored that Pythagorus actually murdered the man who first proposed them because they violated his truly religious belief in the Perfection of numbers.

If math were truly non-philosophical, colleges and universities would put it in their Science departments, but a Bachelor's Degree in Math is a Bachelor of Arts degree, not a Bachelor of Science degree.  That speaks volumes about Math and it's place in the world right there.

While you are welcome to your opinion, and we welcome your suggestions, this one stands zero chance of ever having any effect here.

And never forget - if a topic bothers you, you are under no obligation to read it!!  Just move on to those topics you find interesting and allow others to pursue the things which interest them   O0

I think we all know what hgjf2 is referring to, the pseudo-mathematical (if even that?) blahblah that decreases the signal-to-noise ratio here on FF, which I do think is detrimental to the forum and reinforces stereotypes about fractal people being a little kooky...

Having been on a number of forums over the years, the most long-lived and successful ones are the ones with high quality and signal-to-noise ratio.

Just my -3 cents...

no, I don't know what he is referring to.
would you mind giving us one or two examples?

As a newbie - I see this forum as a place of mathematics discussions (that I cannot get into),  weird conversations (that I cannot understand more than 2 words of), software (downloadable goodies),  visual wonder (pictures that stun and videos that are WOW).

I habitually mark the first 2 as read without reading and the last two I delve into those that catch my eye.

All the above I see as Fractal related and not detracting from the intent of the forum.

I wouldn't describe it like noise when talking about FF, I guess we are talking about the variety of fractals the discussions about it. When ''filtering out the noise'' we simply focus on the discussions which we think are interesting.

If you're having troubles with signal to noise ratio I would suggest checking your internet connection!  That is a purely electrical problem and has nothing to do with any content posted here.

Although I must disagree that non-mathematical content is a problem.  It's a big part of what makes this site so special.  We strive to be welcoming to Mathematicians, Artists, Programmers, Philosophers, and even those Kooky Fractal People  (Personally, I find the the Kooky People to be my Favorite type of person - but to each their own).

This comes back to the fact that nobody is forcing anybody to take part in any discussion they find not to their tastes.

I have run many forums over the years and I have found that the most long-lived and successful ones are the ones with high quality and diversified content/discussions.  Who would think that one of the highest profile and longest lived Porn Forums would have an active Art section for members to display their stuff, Joke sections, AND a special "Dungeon" where people can argue all they want, using any language they want, with zero moderation  (except to be sure no illegal stuff goes on).

If you have any specific examples of what you mean by signal to noise problems, let's see some please.  I see nothing of the sort here.

Yes, fractals have too many aspects to justify excluding certain groups.

@Chillheimer: Thanks for the literature link. So this is it. Some works are very fractal, others are not, and among both, you find many famous works of world literature...

Fractals definitely exist as science math, art music, literature, and as both the domains of pure math as well as natural sciences. Sometimes things like the origin of the universe can spawn philosophical debates like the existence of God, etc, which may be best served in another forum, but the fact remains that fractals are deeply entrenched in the order from chaos of the universe. It is vastly empty space, as the scale from subatomic particle to atom, atom to cell, cell to organism, organism to planet, planet to solar system, solar systems to galaxies and so on out to the boundary of the known observable universe, which is only finite to the extent that we can only observe objects so distant that they existed shortly after the big bang.

These geometries of scale that exist in our universe also exist in biology, our knowledge of which so far is limited to organisms on this planet. Plant and animal tissue show amazing self similarity. The bronchial tubes and alvioli in our lungs are not so difference than the branches and leaves of a tree.

Humanities and arts, ranging from architecture and world road maps to population densities of cities, literature, especially music. Music consists of melodic beats and rythms, and you will find fractal like qualities from the cantor like repetitions of beats to the dispersal of harmonic frequencies of sound waves.

Fractals are everywhere in humanities, nature, and pure mathematics The laws of our universe are largely governed by math and physics, of which only recently we have begun to understand. So to find perfect fractal detail in a mathematical formula that correlates loosely to the imperfect fractals found in nature and out universe, is not surprising.

Full disclosure, I did not read the thread the OP mentioned, but if someone has a problem he or she should voice these concerns with the OP and not take it out on the site. My two cents.

And things which aren't fractal tend to be quite simple and artificial. (Just a thought.)

That's probably because the complaint, at least how it appeared to me, was about The Entire Philosophy Section (http://www.fractalforums.com/philosophy/) here even existing at all!

Something so far removed from the very basic ideas this forum was founded on that it is not even going to be considered as a possibility.

  :rotfl:

Posting that link to the Philosophy section got me looking through it.  Apparently roughly 2 1/2 years ago the same "complaint" was posted by the same person, with very similar reactions! : http://www.fractalforums.com/philosophy/too-many-philosophy/

I don't know why, but I find that quite amusing...

I understand lyc, but I think he was a bit too harsh. For me, usually, the internet is a whole sink of (bull)shit. All of this Youtube-crap, FB-drama, dA-rama..., whatever crap-a-rama... are just a overload of time-wasters for me.
But fractalforums.com is a place I always like to come back, even if I have not much time. I enjoy the full spectrum. The mathematical stuff posted by jehovah as well as some new formulas in Spanish or even deeper zooms made with Kalles Fractaler even if I never was interested in deep zooms (seriously). It is the unbroken spirit to find something (new) which attracts me.

 :beer:

This isn't complaint. Is a notice for sustain fractals. I just like fractals and had fascinated by fractals when I'd child. :flowers: :pray2:
I wanting to ensure that forum working good, and the science of fractals working good.
Also I'm revolted that maths don't be appreciated in my country, and don't exist jobs as mathematician in my country.

I'm forgotten that I written allready this topic 1 year ago. But I can't delete my old topic.

Fascinating how different the perception of some things is. For me the internet is the best thing that ever happened to mankind - it enables us to instantly communicate and connect across the globe, bypass 'filtered information' of the old media or corporate greenwashing. we can start businesses from home, work from home, everyone, even the very poor now have access to all knowledge of mankind.
It levels the playing field.

I don't understand how you can call all this a sink of bullshit..
Of course there are timekillers. There have to be, after all theres EVERYTHING online.
Just like a huge percentage of TV is crap (or newspapers, or books, or ancient fairy tales) you always have to be selective, everyone is responsible for his own interests and what you 'consume'. (though we should teach our children better how to deal with these medias!!)

You don't need to participate in everything. I don't like facebook at all, worst timekiller. There are much better ones, like reddit or pinterest  ;D not to forget fractal forums..
I don't see much of a difference between our image section and deviant art.
And our movie section wouldn't be possible without youtube.

There's always two sides of the coin.. I try to live happier by focussing on the 'right side' and just ignore the crap.

besides that: I don't see any of facebook, youtube, deviantart or whatever crap-arama-drama here.
It exists, but here at ff?  where? still waiting for a link.
(Or I've become too good in ignoring  the crap ;)
Or, maybe I'm one of the producers of said crap and just don't realize it.  O0


@hgjf2:
I guess most of us share that fascination for fractals - that's probably why we're here.
But we all have different stories that led us to fractals. Mine was the beauty of them and the fact that they are all around in nature.
I'm actually revolted that this isn't appreciated worlkdwide, that there is no distinct field of studies for fractals, although they are very obviously omnipresent everywhere you look.
Something clearly is wrong.
Focussing on just the math of fractals or just focussing on trippy pictures and videos or how to generate them is - that in my opinion plays a major role why something is wrong.
It's exactly the other way around than you say.
Ignoring fractals in nature and the philosophical questions that they raise is what does the real, long term damage to fractals.
It is like just caring for basic quantum mechanics or physics and saying that all the universe that evolves from that is not worth mentioning.

my 2 cents..

(btw, ever noticed how we say "a penny for your thoughts" but when giving our opinion it's 2 cents, or even 3 ;) our own opinion is worth double..)

Then please accept my apologies if I misunderstood your intent and my thanks for clarifying things.

No worries about repeating the same topic two and a half years later either, I was amused - not annoyed - by that.  It surely has been long enough that reposting it will reach a whole new audience  (I even forgot about the old topic until I saw it again).  Just don't repeat it every month or two   :tease:

And as Chillheimer said, it is all part of a greater whole.


We like to keep the forum history complete.  Deleting the old thread you made would also delete posts made by others, some of which were very insightful, and there is no need for that.

Look at the discussion this thread has started!  That is not a bad thing.  As I said before, we welcome all viewpoints here - even those we disagree with on some level   O0

Hi, I meant unmoderated places (which are the most). But, certainly this is not the main focus of this discussion, so we should stop here, I just wanted to make clear this one point.

Cheers!

One other case of working against maths and fractals is revealed.
The porn video "soft nudity" placed at section "film" at current competition :spam: , is promovated. A cause of FRACTALFORUMS make fractals shame.
I'm so sorry to post this  :sad1: . But I must defending the honority of maths.
If this film whick might to be banned, is promovated, else FRACTALFORUMS risquing to receive spams with generical pills, and I wantn't that FRACTALFORUMS to be infected with spams. I known this from my email address used and social networks used. FRACTALFORUMS must remaining the cleanest and the most educated social network from world.
This porn video is at post "COMPO 2016 REVIEW BY WEAVERS".

That video has been approved by the moderators and they are trying to keep the forums clean from spam but we don't consider this to be spam. Then, we wouldn't even be able to have a nice contest if everything should be about mathematics.

This is the third time you have posted this complaint.  You were told each time that a small amount of nudity, which is Clearly Marked with a warning for those who may find it offensive, does NOT elevate to the level of porn.

We realize some repressed people and repressive cultures may frown upon it, but that does not make it pornography.  Much of the Fine Art hanging in museums all over the world has more explicit stuff in plain view with no warnings at all!

You have had this explained repeatedly and now it is your comments that are bordering on spam   :police:

You don't have to like it, or look at it.  But you do have to accept that it is Art, and has a place here.

Perhaps you mistake us for a science and math forum?  We are that, and more!  We are a Fractal Art forum - and Art is just as important as Fractals here.

Please realize that you are over reacting and it is not something that repeating yourself will change.


I don't know why you think this is porn.  You are wrong!

Again - go to an Art Museum and make those statements about the Art they display and see if they agree.

I understood
I won't write nothing at this topic.