Print Page - help for all beginners

Title: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 09, 2015, 04:09:00 PM

Hello,
I am Fractales75 (philippe), and I make fractal images with Mandelbulb3D Ultrafractal and Jwildfire / apophysis and
for a few months I try to make my first steps in Fragmentarium!
but I can not. I have never understood how this software works ... :hmh:
I never understood this raytracers story... :fiery:
for me this software remains a mystery.
there is nowhere first-level tutorials. The discussions here are 2nd level, but they do not help for beginners. :alien:
And I think that arriving to make a fractal image with Fragmentarium is an obstacle course for any beginner, with traps, and areas of mysteries, deadly and discouraging.
As evidenced by this page:
http://sabine62.deviantart.com/art/Bulbism-516626514

is there anyone who knows this software, could make a small gesture for all beginners 'first steps' level and make just a small page, or a small video to explain the Fragmentarium interface ? :help:
thank you in advance :)

philippe

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: Patryk Kizny on October 09, 2015, 04:51:04 PM

Start running tutorials and examples bundled with the software.
Fragmentarium is generally a GLSL scripting environment, but even without coding you can open existing examples, tweak settings and render nice images.

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: Crist-JRoger on October 09, 2015, 04:58:26 PM

First - you need gamer`s videocard (amd/ati or nvidia). Powerful - better!
Second - open one of example and change parameters in Parameters(uniforms) window. That`s all )

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 10, 2015, 01:18:27 AM

Quote from: Crist-JRoger on October 09, 2015, 04:58:26 PM

First - you need gamer`s videocard (amd/ati or nvidia). Powerful - better!
Second - open one of example and change parameters in Parameters(uniforms) window. That`s all )

OK for NVidia videocard, but what have I to do to use your DE-raytracer ?
http://www.fractalforums.com/fragmentarium/updating-of-de-raytracer/
this post is completely esoteric for me ... :-\

a little how-to, a little tuto, please...

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: Crist-JRoger on October 10, 2015, 09:38:35 AM

My English not so good to write tutorials ) I`ll try...

Fragmentarium works with *.frag files. It's parts of one "big" code divided into parts. This parts situated in Examples folder. One part - raytracer must be situated in Include folder as other "non-fractal" parts.
In the biginning of every script you see on the left field something like this:

Code:

#info Theli-at's Pseudo Kleinian (Scale 1 JuliaBox + Something (here a Menger Sponge)).
#include "DE-Raytracer.frag"
#include "MathUtils.frag"

You can rewrite #include "DE-Raytracer.frag" on your own and put it in Examples\Include folder. Or comment string // and write yours. If you will open DE-Raytracer.frag like *.txt file you`ll see string #include "3D.frag". So this file must also be in a Examples\Include folder. Next open 3D.frag and see #buffershader "BufferShader.frag" ... ... ...
When you run something of examples - all the same files merge in one.

So, if you want to use other raytracer, just put all linked files in Examples\Include folder and write #include .... .
In standard Fragmentarium build you can find a lot of different raytracers. Something of simple examples in \Examples\Tutorials folder.

I think that`t enough to understand how it works )

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: 3dickulus on October 10, 2015, 02:06:36 PM

Download new-CR08.zip http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20680.0;attach=10931

run Fragmentarium
menu File->Open
select one of the frag files PeudoKleinian03.frag or Baird-Delta.frag or pythagore.frag

Fragmentarium will search in the folder you where you loaded the frag for support files before trying to find them in Examples/Include folder

When you select "Autosave fragment" in the render output dialog, it will gather the support files and save them with your fragment, it will also save the current parameter settings as the "Default" preset in your new saved fragment.

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 12, 2015, 12:51:37 AM

Ok! thanks ! ^-^

And what means

Quote

with modified DE-raytracer (bloom, iq-clouds, kaliset surface mapping)

for this image ?
http://crist-jroger.deviantart.com/art/Sunrise-560033230
-----------------------------------------------
another questions

I see here
http://www.fractalforums.com/fragmentarium/updating-of-de-raytracer/

Quote

Bloom effect looks amazing Great results with multisteps reflections
Here a test (1920x1080 2000 subframes)

does the quality of the image depends on number of subframes ?

----------------------

in Mandelbulb3D, we mix formulas;
it don’t seem to be possible with fragmentarium....
am I right ?

--------------

the space of manoeuvre for the creativity is essentially focused on "parameters" panel, or also something I missed ?

-------------
some .frag give error message (in log)

Quote

not a runnable fragment

:hmh:

-----------------

Quote from: 3dickulus on October 10, 2015, 02:06:36 PM

Baird-Delta.frag gives error messages ...

Quote

Could not create fragment shader: 0:1099(16): error: initializer of const variable `fl0' must be a constant expression

can I do something?

-----------------------
Cloud2.frag gives error message

Quote

Could not resolve path for file: DE-kn2Clouds.frag

I can't find DE-kn2Clouds.frag :hmh:

thanks for your patience :)

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: 3dickulus on October 12, 2015, 06:33:10 AM

Quote

does the quality of the image depends on number of subframes ?

yes

Quote

in Mandelbulb3D, we mix formulas;
it don’t seem to be possible with fragmentarium....
am I right ?

No not right, you can mix formulae

Quote

some .frag give error message (in log)
"not a runnable fragment"

that would be a support file included by fragment

Quote

I can't find DE-kn2Clouds.frag

try DE-kn2.frag instead

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 12, 2015, 04:32:06 PM

Quote

try DE-kn2.frag instead

does DE-kn2Clouds.frag exist somewhere ?
-------------------------

Quote

No not right, you can mix formulae

on how we mix .frag, or on another way?
Did I misunderstood something ?

thanks :)

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: DarkBeam on October 12, 2015, 06:54:54 PM

In fragmentarium you can not only mix but also CREATE new formulas - so... :)

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: 3dickulus on October 12, 2015, 07:30:03 PM

@fractales75 this is just a guess but I think DE-kn2Clouds.frag was renamed to DE-kn2.frag once the clouds were working, just a guess ;)
you will have to learn some GLSL something like...

Code:

		if (n<MN) {
			sphereFold(z,dz);
			z = Scale*z;
			dz*=abs(Scale);
		} else {
			mengerFold(z,dz);
			r = length(z);
			powN2(z,r,dz);
		}

...mixes sphereFold and mengerFold, but this is not the only way to mix routines, you will have to experiment with your code to find what you want.

there is also in the Examples/Experimental folder there is 3Dickulus.frag that uses 3 functions, mandel, menger, box in a different way.

tip: there is NO button or menu item that will mix routines for you, you have to write the code yourself in the editor to provide that functionality in your own frag.

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: Crist-JRoger on October 12, 2015, 07:36:39 PM

Quote from: DarkBeam on October 12, 2015, 06:54:54 PM

In fragmentarium you can not only mix but also CREATE new formulas - so... :)

By the way, how about new formulas? 88)

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 13, 2015, 11:16:00 AM

and the formulas list is where?

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: 3dickulus on October 13, 2015, 03:22:57 PM

@fractales75

Quote

you will have to learn some GLSL

in the example above the "formulas" look like...

Code:

void sphereFold(inout vec3 z, inout float dz) {
	float r2 = dot(z,z);
	if (r2< minRadius2) {
		float temp = (fixedRadius2/minRadius2);
		z*= temp;
		dz*=temp;
        } else if (r2<fixedRadius2) {
		float temp =(fixedRadius2/r2);
		z*=temp;
		dz*=temp;
	}
}

void mengerFold(inout vec3 z, inout float dz) {
	z = abs(z);
	if (z.x<z.y){ z.xy = z.yx;}
	if (z.x< z.z){ z.xz = z.zx;}
	if (z.y<z.z){ z.yz = z.zy;}
	z = Scale*z-Offset*(Scale-1.0);
	if( z.z<-0.5*Offset.z*(Scale-1.0))  z.z+=Offset.z*(Scale-1.0);
	dz*=Scale;
}

...and you write them in the text editor window, after changing your fragment press "F5" to recompile or hit the "Build" button.

technically the "list" of formulas is the list of files in the "Examples" folder.

for beginners, you should just play with the fragments that exist in the "Examples" folder until you get a better understanding of GLSL ;)

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 13, 2015, 05:51:00 PM

thanks !
with this, we'll get there.

I have still a couple of little questions

in the Fragmentarium menu
what means render/ 'output preprocess script'

Edit / 'indent script'

---------------------------------

what are the errors that are unique to fragmentarium beginners?

thank you :)

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: 3dickulus on October 14, 2015, 01:00:18 AM

'output preprocess script' opens a new tab and displays the script that is assembled from #include statements and code in the currently active tab before compiling the fragment for GPU execution. Mainly for debugging purposes.

'indent script' = tidy?

unique? I think when anyone begins something new their mistakes are similar, I have a bad habit of taking things apart and reading the manual later, there are a lot of great examples and instruction in the related threads here on FF, there is a 3Dickulus-How-To.txt included that walks you through creating a keyframe animation, parameter morph animation and 'Auto Focus'. There is also included a 3Dickulus.changes document that describes the changes I have made to the original code by Syntopia.

These things will give you a feel for how to use the program and it's interface and what options are available.

There are links in the help menu that have a lot more info than I can provide regarding GLSL, Syntopia's blog (http://blog.hvidtfeldts.net/) is a really good place to start.

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 14, 2015, 02:32:24 AM

thank you for all !
:D

I will read this deeply.

-----------
first try
http://fractales75.deviantart.com/art/1st-try-566065842?ga_submit_new=10%253A1444782450

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: cyseal on October 14, 2015, 06:21:32 PM

Where to download the most recent Fragmentarium?

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: fractales75 on October 15, 2015, 01:59:54 AM

Quote from: cyseal on October 14, 2015, 06:21:32 PM

Where to download the most recent Fragmentarium?

have a look here
http://www.digilanti.org/fragmentarium/

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: 3dickulus on October 15, 2015, 02:46:37 AM

:embarrass: yeah, I could have mentioned that, oops

edit: for those who want to know a bit more about what to do in the text editor, http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=17354.msg66844#msg66844

Title: Re: help for all beginners
Post by: Patryk Kizny on October 15, 2015, 04:45:12 PM

→ what means render/ 'output preprocess script'
It outputs a single consolidated (preprocessed) script for debugging. That way the console line numbers will match the preprocessed script indexes.

→ Edit / 'indent script'
It indents the script. However it's not very reliable.
I suggest working with a Notepadd++ or any other code editor. Frag won't give you any good range of standard coding tools that make work faster.

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Fractal Software => Fragmentarium => Topic started by: fractales75 on October 09, 2015, 04:09:00 PM