Title: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 15, 2015, 05:56:15 AM [INFO]
moved by moderator ckleinhuis to here, splitted original topic here: info from tglad afterwards: Did someone move this into its own thread? Its an interesting formula but it is an extension of the transform in these threads: http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-3d-mandelbrot-like-fractal http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-tetrahedral-mandelbulb The formula does the same fold but is smooth, and conformal on the sphere surface. [/INFO] I have a function which I think is right. It isn't quite the same as from the table, and it isn't minimally conformal in 3d, however it is fully conformal in 2d (on the surface of the sphere or on a plane) and is smooth. To perform the function on a sphere, we do it using complex maths on the complex plane: http://davidbau.com/conformal/#-0.25*(2%5E0.5)*(z*(z-2%5E0.5)*(z-(-0.5%2B0.866*i)*2%5E0.5)*(z-(-0.5-0.866*i)*2%5E0.5))%2F((z-(0.5%5E0.5)*(0.5%2B0.866*i))*(z-(0.5%5E0.5)*(0.5-0.866*i))*(z-(0.5%5E0.5)*(-1))) (http://davidbau.com/conformal/#-0.25*(2%5E0.5)*(z*(z-2%5E0.5)*(z-(-0.5%2B0.866*i)*2%5E0.5)*(z-(-0.5-0.866*i)*2%5E0.5))%2F((z-(0.5%5E0.5)*(0.5%2B0.866*i))*(z-(0.5%5E0.5)*(0.5-0.866*i))*(z-(0.5%5E0.5)*(-1)))) then convert the point onto the Riemann sphere, just as is often done with mandelbulb functions. I have a feeling it will make interesting 2d fractals too, but the 3 poles will make it a bit harder to visualise. Title: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: DarkBeam on February 15, 2015, 06:20:09 PM The idea is just cool but do you have any finished render (and script) - so I can make some confront :embarrass: I do tons of coding mistakes :embarrass:
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: Tglad on February 16, 2015, 12:24:44 AM Did someone move this into its own thread? Its an interesting formula but it is an extension of the transform in these threads:
http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-3d-mandelbrot-like-fractal (http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-3d-mandelbrot-like-fractal) http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-tetrahedral-mandelbulb (http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-tetrahedral-mandelbulb) The formula does the same fold but is smooth, and conformal on the sphere surface. I updated the formula above to have what should be the correct scale. Looks right now, it turns the unit circle (the equator on the Riemann sphere) into an octahedron on the sphere, as seen by the grey circles. The 0.866 in the formula is more precisely asin(120). I haven't done anything with the formula yet, apart from try it in 2d, the mandelbrot set of it isn't much use, just lots of scattered blobs... possibly there's a better way to visualise it but not sure... it should produce a 'void sponge'-like fractal I think, like the menger carpet. Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 12:38:37 AM @tglad yes i moved it, shall i change the name? it looked like it did not belong to the originating thread
i splitted the original topic here: http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/true-3d-mandelbrot/msg80500/#msg80500 (will post above including your info) Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: DarkBeam on February 16, 2015, 09:34:08 AM Thank you a lot I report the formula here for an immediate reference:
-0.25*(2^0.5)*(z*(z-2^0.5)*(z-(-0.5+0.866*i)*2^0.5)*(z-(-0.5-0.866*i)*2^0.5)) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ((z-(0.5^0.5)*(0.5+0.866*i))*(z-(0.5^0.5)*(0.5-0.866*i))*(z-(0.5^0.5)*(-1))) It can be placed as a Difs transform for sure will see when :) Ofc I need to expand the product and find re() and im() parts before :) Ok this is the expansion finally got right!!! :pray2: Code: sqrt(2)/4*z*(sqrt(8)-z^3)/(z^3+1/sqrt(8)) Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: Tglad on February 16, 2015, 10:40:00 AM I have made the code for you, in fragmentarium (attached).
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rgmXmVusnjg/VOG5uGuBzzI/AAAAAAAAAjE/oBVP5SFsc0k/s1600/tetrahedralFractal.png) With a bit of simplifying, the function is: (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y6kiOLeuSRc/VOFSNNskpEI/AAAAAAAAAik/mw_6QLoUz8s/s1600/CodeCogsEqn%2B(2).png) Thanks Syntopia for the rendering without distance estimator, which made this easier to prototype, and thanks DarkBeam for coming back to this one, it is nice to get a continuous function. Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: DarkBeam on February 16, 2015, 10:52:31 AM Looking nice thanks mr Mandelbox :D
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 01:31:52 PM thank you for the formula, i am typing it into ultrafractal right now, but what is the "i" variable in your formula? the j belongs to the multiplication operatzor, but what is the i from?
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 01:56:51 PM i typed it in to ultrafractal
this is the core of the ultrafractal loop function, use high bailout Code: loop: Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 01:59:18 PM itercount=3 impressions. zoomed into spine
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 01:59:53 PM itercount3 mandelbrots found, into elephant valley
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 02:00:40 PM itercount3 minibrot
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: knighty on February 16, 2015, 02:04:48 PM That's awesome! Just wondering, why not use stereographic projection instead of spherical coordinates? IIRC, the Riemann sphere is obtained from the complex plane (+ point at infinity) by using the inverse stereographic projection.
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 03:22:40 PM errh, forget the previous postings, they did not multiply in the multiply loop, fixing it now
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 03:40:49 PM corrected formula
Code: loop: following are images with "itercount=2,3,4" Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 03:41:08 PM itercount2,3,4
Title: Re: 2d conformal formula suggestion Post by: cKleinhuis on February 16, 2015, 03:43:36 PM and elephant impression ;) from itercount=3
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 16, 2015, 05:17:15 PM :snore: I just have to report it in x & y form, that's the formula (hopefully...) :) (just the mapping!!!)
Code: // complex map; "sqrt(2)/4*z*(sqrt(8)-z^3)/(z^3+1/sqrt(8))" -> in x and y form WORKS woot woot ;D Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 17, 2015, 10:40:49 AM Knighty:
Quote why not use stereographic projection instead of spherical coordinates? You're right, I wrote it quickly, but it should be possible to get rid of all the trigonometry, so make it run faster too.I wrote a little blog post to present it with some more info: http://tglad.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/tetrahedral-wrapping-function.html (http://tglad.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/tetrahedral-wrapping-function.html) The mandelbrot set is quite interesting, (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kkuQJmCsmmU/VOHB6ktW7hI/AAAAAAAAAj0/p1vZDF69SOs/s1600/bailout4.png) Though this visualiser is not ideal, I need to write one which works better for transforms with poles in them. I also realised that a similar transform can be made which is a bit more like the original mandelbulbs, it quadruple covers the sphere, and has bilateral symmetry, but is also continuous and smooth: (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wQUPX7bvyiQ/VOMIiBDdfyI/AAAAAAAAAkc/eJGFoOvfM48/s1600/CodeCogsEqn.png) it looks a bit like a rocket- (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lWBADKeZDus/VOMJHsdWsWI/AAAAAAAAAkk/2Uqg6OxjeF4/s1600/dihedrabulb.png) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 11:37:49 AM I think this formula is absolutely wonderful - never seen a so pretty power 2 Mandelbrot, it's the only contender of Aexion's find so far!
(http://i.imgur.com/WM5cABj.png) I am sorry that it renders slow, I hope that it will become very widely used! And OMG guys already a variant :D have some mercy!!! ----------------------- (Aaand, what about the cosine variant? Please code code :dink: :dink: :dink: ) Title: Seahorse variant Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 12:19:08 PM Hum, while tempting naively to find the sine (or cosine) variant found this new buddy :dink: (dunno if it has any sense?)
Some features look semi-nice :dink: Code: void tetra(inout vec3 p, float r) {Higher resolution... (http://i.imgur.com/2YbZB6i.jpg) Also now I will try to find "higher powers" :D Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: knighty on February 17, 2015, 12:44:27 PM Here is the stereographic projection variant. More "whipped cream" but the julias are interesting: for some C you have 2d julias encraved in.
To get some variations one can rotate z before applying tetra transform or, Within tetra function, multiply z by some complex number just before transforming back to the sphere (a similarity transform). It seems quite difficult to get a nearly conformal transform In 3D. It is like there is not enought space/room. Maybe in hyperbolic space...? Or maybe a continuous but non smooth transform? (my 2ct thought) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 01:04:48 PM Here is the stereographic projection variant. More "whipped cream" but the julias are interesting: for some C you have 2d julias encraved in. On the "normal" formula some J-Sets have... 3D spirals! Beautiful :o Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: cKleinhuis on February 17, 2015, 01:23:06 PM On the "normal" formula some J-Sets have... 3D spirals! Beautiful :o lol, how nice, although i wonder what is special about the new formula, it definately produces cool pictures in 2d ;) show those nice 3d spirals :D !!! Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 17, 2015, 03:03:50 PM (http://i.imgur.com/WM5cABj.png)
:thumbsup1: Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: knighty on February 17, 2015, 04:55:03 PM Tglad:
In your formula(s) there are always points where the derivative vanishes (=0).(tere are 6 here (http://davidbau.com/conformal/#-0.25*%282^0.5%29*%28z*%28z-2^0.5%29*%28z-%28-0.5%2B0.866*i%29*2^0.5%29*%28z-%28-0.5-0.866*i%29*2^0.5%29%29%2F%28%28z-%280.5^0.5%29*%280.5%2B0.866*i%29%29*%28z-%280.5^0.5%29*%280.5-0.866*i%29%29*%28z-%280.5^0.5%29*%28-1%29%29%29&b=earth+&z=9)). those have 180° rotation. Is it possible to modify the formula in order to transform those points from parabolic (dervative=0) to conical (derivative!=0)? I think that would reduce a lot the stretching. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: LMarkoya on February 17, 2015, 05:24:31 PM outstanding, is the formula available in Mandelbulb?
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 06:06:27 PM outstanding, is the formula available in Mandelbulb? Yes! Look in my archive! :) Luca Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 06:30:34 PM I also realised that a similar transform can be made which is a bit more like the original mandelbulbs, it quadruple covers the sphere, and has bilateral symmetry, but is also continuous and smooth: (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wQUPX7bvyiQ/VOMIiBDdfyI/AAAAAAAAAkc/eJGFoOvfM48/s1600/CodeCogsEqn.png) it looks a bit like a rocket- (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lWBADKeZDus/VOMJHsdWsWI/AAAAAAAAAkk/2Uqg6OxjeF4/s1600/dihedrabulb.png) Equivalent in flat x-y code; Code: float x=z.x; float y = z.y; :beer: Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 07:31:44 PM lol, how nice, although i wonder what is special about the new formula, it definately produces cool pictures in 2d ;) show those nice 3d spirals :D !!! Christian I can easily find some marine creatures and curious swirls in my variation, not so lucky with Tglad's original! :) This is a normal Julia with param included; Mandelbulb3Dv18{ g.....w....o0...w....I....E4B.AWyA9xz8ZVUKKjhD0Edf9/3tv3pz18h6/N5h6qzOCJmpNYl4xj ................................3.KBnjFSD.2........A./..................y.2...wD ...Uz6.....8..../Mk0/.....Uw/...y/....E3.....kue/6uw28oD/..........G0dkpXm1....U z.UaNadD12../2Uqja1y5rmtzqEOaSa6ysvj3Xs5ELEgOz9...........U0.....y1...sD...../.. .z1...sD25dhsNgqNw1ty8vO2cXTy62/nkdrm7pDGByRL8nqcqfTsD5cnHcIzYwQn.oYLtbjWHnjRuhQ GxftdXY0dTGFy.JbAOblOblDU.....2BE.............sD.6....sD..G.0................... .............oAnAt1...sD....z...........................................T....k1. .....Ksulz1.......kz.cNmO1.U..6.P....Q2....L....m....c3...kB....u....I1.....SJ52 Sk3U.ubFP5lb2zj7....p.....6.pc..zXCc..kvrEtMc7xD6ocyFE0ujz1..........2.28.kFrA0. .Ub96aAIVz9.1se7Umvxz0........../EU0.wzzz1...........s/...................E.2c.. zzzz.............0...................2./8.kzzzD............8.................... /EU0.wzzz1...................................wAVk..Etyfvxa0qbQ0..Zvji1SCohAB..Ii zuCXyIYir/.EtyfrJkoO5V9..Zvji1UJwCoa..IizSynY3nhC1.Etyfve3rn201..ZvjiTfRDH6A..Ii zuC.wxAVk..Etyfv..EsUa3feeWCNqGQIJ36wk8EwyLsUa3f................................ E....2..F2E.....I....2.....JblKMYFJNo7LMm.UQ.........................6.......... ...................../........zj................................................ ................................................................................ ........................} {Titel: Pretty seahorses} (http://i.imgur.com/AqV4Ptm.jpg) O0 Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 17, 2015, 07:55:18 PM Yes! Look in my archive! :) Luca Luca is back Louis! O0 Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: laser blaster on February 17, 2015, 09:46:20 PM Wow, beautiful pirctures! Nice work, all. I might like the non-conformal version slightly better, with it's angular IFS shapes, but this one is interesting too.
DarkBeam, is your seahorse picture from the variant you created? Your variant uses the same conformal map as Tglad's transform, it just uses a different projection onto the sphere, is that correct? Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 17, 2015, 11:34:05 PM Hello laser :)
Glad you liked and yes, it is almost the same i just changed at some point x with y and a sign, but it looks definitely different :) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 18, 2015, 12:15:27 AM Knighty:
Quote Here is the stereographic projection variant. More "whipped cream" but the julias are interesting I haven't checked the code, but the stereographic projection should not affect the formula or the shape, it should just be a more economical way to go from the complex plane to the sphere, and back again.Quote In your formula(s) there are always points where the derivative vanishes (=0).(there are 6 here). those have 180° rotation. Is it possible to modify the formula in order to transform those points from parabolic (dervative=0) to conical (derivative!=0)? I think that would reduce a lot the stretching. You are right, that is what I was doing in the two links at the start of this topic. I didn't have an analytic formula so I was doing it using a lookup table. It would make the formula 'quasi-conformal' in that the stretch would be bounded (maximum eccentricity of 2 I think), however it would make the formula non-smooth at those 6 points. (I'm fairly sure an analytic formula could be be made using a weighted average of conical transforms at those 6 points, and 3 poles and 4 points that go to zero but scale by about 2. The weighting being something like 1/distance to feature, on the sphere). Quote It seems quite difficult to get a nearly conformal transform In 3D. It is like there is not enought space/room. Maybe in hyperbolic space...? Exactly conformal is impossible due to Liouville's theorem, since the only conformal 3d transforms are translations, rotations, dilation (scale) and sphere inversions, and combinations of these. The same is true in hyperbolic space and in dimensions more than 3d. But *nearly* conformal (quasiconformal) is an interesting question, I got an average eccentricity of about 1.5 in this post- http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-3d-mandelbrot-like-fractal/msg12013/#msg12013 (http://www.fractalforums.com/the-3d-mandelbulb/a-new-3d-mandelbrot-like-fractal/msg12013/#msg12013)My previous 2d mandelbrots were wrong (I was adding c in the numerator). I have also written a more correct bailout condition and the results are very cool: (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FW8m3CrlaFI/VORkHbbsG7I/AAAAAAAAAk0/KfGUwfe_3XY/s1600/tetra1.png) (the full shape is a rough triangle) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9jUmgMa5_Eg/VORkcWhLOPI/AAAAAAAAAlE/ZA84wDabtWc/s1600/tetra3.png) and for the dihedral fold version: (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NJXh7u-Y5Gw/VORpE8TDZQI/AAAAAAAAAlQ/_o1ZLsicQV8/s1600/dihedral1.png) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M7m5S__jgQ0/VORpSIM4DvI/AAAAAAAAAlg/QaN5wNFZoT0/s1600/dihedral3.png) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V4uAy0_jJuA/VORpcsVu-zI/AAAAAAAAAlo/ucvg3ngfqkc/s1600/diheral4.png) Try it out, I saved it here: http://hirnsohle.de/test/fractalLab/ (http://hirnsohle.de/test/fractalLab/) under 'Tetrahedral fold' in the library. You can change the fractal type to Dihedral in the constants tab. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 18, 2015, 01:13:35 PM I need to work out the full details. However this should help to untrig the expressions! :D
cos(0.5 arccos(x) ) = ( 0.5 (1+x) ) ^ 0.5 sin(0.5 arccos(x) ) = ( 0.5 (1-x) ) ^ 0.5 so tan (0.5 arccos(x) ) = ((1-x)/(1+x))^0.5 :D -> this untrigs "angle" while sin( atan(x) ) = x/sqrt(1+x*x) and cos( atan(x) ) = 1/sqrt(1+x*x) to untrig omega. :police: Whew, it should be easier now? ^-^ Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: knighty on February 18, 2015, 02:52:04 PM Tglad & DarkBeam:
Ah! yes, the stereographic projection gives the same result. It's only rotated 180°. to get exactly the same result just set: vec2 z = - p.xy / (1. - p.z); Instead of: vec2 z = p.xy / (1. - p.z); in the beginning of tetra() function. So no need for trigonometric functions. ;) I didn't know (and couldn't find docs about it) that liouville's theorem holds also in 3D+ hyperbolic spaces. Any references? The existence of points where the derivative of tetra() vanishes may explain why the julia of this fractal contains (a little bit deformed) 2D classic julias. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: kram1032 on February 18, 2015, 03:33:24 PM that's a pretty Julia rock :D
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 19, 2015, 01:46:33 AM Nice Julia stone!
Quote I didn't know (and couldn't find docs about it) that liouville's theorem holds also in 3D+ hyperbolic spaces. Any references? from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liouville%27s_theorem_(conformal_mappings) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liouville%27s_theorem_(conformal_mappings))I think it is basically expressed in this sentence: "Similar rigidity results (in the smooth case) hold on any conformal manifold. The group of conformal isometries of an n-dimensional conformal Riemannian manifold always has dimension that cannot exceed that of the full conformal group SO(n+1,1)." (Hyperbolic space being one such conformal Riemannian manifold). In other words, if the manifold is 3d, then the conformal symmetries are just SO(4,1) (4d rotations) which is 6 dimensional which I'm fairly sure is seen as the combinations of translation, rotation, inversion, dilation in 3d. Some more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_geometry#Higher_dimensions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_geometry#Higher_dimensions). All in horribly obscure language of course. I think this also suggests the same is true in Minkowski space. I have attached the fractalLab code so you can use it (apparently saving to the library is only local). The negative versions of both formula are equally awesome, if not more so- (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iUIjCySHmWI/VOWe126FreI/AAAAAAAAAmA/6jzWxjgKQsI/s1600/negativeTetrahedral.png) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mH9BHqDqBoE/VOWelvLrzgI/AAAAAAAAAl4/2x01rECOqf8/s1600/negativeDihedral.png) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: laser blaster on February 19, 2015, 10:07:57 AM Woah... the negative version looks incredible! Have you tried putting it into 3d yet? I love how these fractals look like a fusion of IFS and Mandelbrot features, even though they're based on conformal maps. By the way, I found some nice elephant-like spirals in a 3D Julia. This is probably just scratching the surface of what shapes are possible with this.
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 19, 2015, 12:54:19 PM :snore: I was finally able to drop all trigonometric funx to Tglad's brot:
Code: void tetra(inout vec3 p, float r) {Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: knighty on February 19, 2015, 01:50:54 PM :snore: I was finally able to drop all trigonometric funx to Tglad's brot: ;DNice Julia stone! Thank you. Couldn't they say it in more understandable words? just joking. Thanks again.I think it is basically expressed in this sentence: "Similar rigidity results (in the smooth case) hold on any conformal manifold. The group of conformal isometries of an n-dimensional conformal Riemannian manifold always has dimension that cannot exceed that of the full conformal group SO(n+1,1)." Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: kram1032 on February 19, 2015, 02:19:06 PM Math has its own technical language. There are tons and tons of words which mean very simple things but if you had to explain them each time again in full sentences (i.e. you'd not already have a word for that), you'd end up talking for hour where a minute would have sufficed.
Really, any specialized field has these same issues. I wish there was a way around that but I fear there isn't really any. In fact that's probably a big part of learning new stuff: Find new ways to express it. Learning something deeply means being able to talk about it fluently. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 20, 2015, 12:01:03 AM :)
Cross sections of the dihedral variant show the so called "perpendicular Mandelbrot" set, so it maybe an idea to postmultiply x by its sign. (not tried yet.) In every case folks can download the fast MB3D version of both variants :) If anyone has a formula for those ... post here... 1. Nth power (at least 3... and 4?) of tetrahedral :) (also power 1.5 or 0.5 can be interesting at least for inverse iteration implements) 2. Dodeca (or icosa) hedral variant ;D Please? ^-^ Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 20, 2015, 10:58:52 AM In every case folks can download the fast MB3D version of both variants :) This is going to be another busy weekend... O0 Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 20, 2015, 12:39:43 PM Lol Johan ;)
And I was kind of able to do powers like 4, 8 with a cheap trick. Not sure if it's ok. (And how I get z^3 still?) :dink: Waiting for a confirmation ;D Code: int log2pow = 1; // gives mandelbrot ^ 4 use 2, 3 higher power Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: knighty on February 20, 2015, 06:28:44 PM Math has its own technical language. There are tons and tons of words which mean very simple things but if you had to explain them each time again in full sentences (i.e. you'd not already have a word for that), you'd end up talking for hour where a minute would have sufficed. Man! I was joking. That was beacaus I've already read the wiki article and have not understand that.Really, any specialized field has these same issues. I wish there was a way around that but I fear there isn't really any. In fact that's probably a big part of learning new stuff: Find new ways to express it. Learning something deeply means being able to talk about it fluently. I absolutely agree. :) Lol Johan ;) Keep'em coming. :mandel:And I was kind of able to do powers like 4, 8 with a cheap trick. Not sure if it's ok. (And how I get z^3 still?) :dink: Waiting for a confirmation ;D Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 21, 2015, 11:04:04 AM Spirals on the inside of a TgladTetra Julia... The distance estimator is having some problems it seems... :sad1:
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 21, 2015, 11:37:44 AM :spiral:
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 21, 2015, 12:15:09 PM ooh, that's nice :beer:
what are you using for the distance estimator? Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 21, 2015, 12:33:27 PM Thank you Tom! :beer:
First image: Raystep multiplier 0.1 Stepwidth limiter 0.5 Second image , because it was just a test: Raystep multiplier 0.5 Stepwidth limiter 1 I'd like to use lower values, but it get extremely slooooow…. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: ericr on February 21, 2015, 04:13:38 PM if you like it what are the parameters of the spiral 3d mandelbulb above
thank you :embarrass: Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 21, 2015, 08:20:03 PM :beer: This is the only 3D formula I know that can show spirals... in positive AND negative mode! :beer: :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 21, 2015, 08:21:51 PM I'd like to use lower values, but it get extremely slooooow…. What about a low bailout and lower iterations :dink: (15 to 30 should suffice) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: hgjf2 on February 22, 2015, 09:25:08 AM :spiral: Nice 3D fractals.What fractal program was used: INCENDIA or MANDELBULBER or are rendered with C++/C# ? The exacthly formula is just this at code on previous page? :peacock: :wow: So if the FRACTALFORUMS annual compo would began at March, how I had believed due recent posts at "competitions and contents" chapter, I would prepare just now those 3D fractal like at this topic. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: cKleinhuis on February 22, 2015, 11:31:53 AM the new formulas are right now available for mandelbulb3d, download and install darkbeams lates formula collection
http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-3d/custom-formulas-and-transforms-release-t17106/ in mandelbulb3d they are called Tglad* in the second "3D" formula tab Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 22, 2015, 01:48:16 PM What about a low bailout and lower iterations :dink: (15 to 30 should suffice) It helped, of course with a loss of detail (spirals not spiraling in as much as with high iterations) Still having issues in some cases though! Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 22, 2015, 01:51:50 PM if you like it what are the parameters of the spiral 3d mandelbulb above thank you :embarrass: I am not a big fan of parameter sharing because if you try to find it yourself you will for sure end up finding something even nicer. I can tell you how I found it though, I went inside the m-set and looked around for any interesting shapes, I found a spiraly part, turned on Julia calculation, clicked on the spiral part of the image I had rendered and calculated the Julia, mostly you have to back out again before you see what you have got... Good hunting Eric! However, if Luca is interested he might include these parameters as example parameters with the next release of M3D. ;) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Sockratease on February 22, 2015, 02:23:44 PM ...So if the FRACTALFORUMS annual compo would began at March, how I had believed due recent posts at "competitions and contents" chapter... May, not March. You either mistyped that or misread the post. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 22, 2015, 02:28:22 PM Been a busy weekend... O0
Already printable model, check out the 3D-view on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/DK77VP9TM/?key=8c5e126b1f7b45b76a85b8dbaa949f81 (http://images.shapeways.com/model/picture/625x465_3158543_9154342_1424611241.jpg?key=961537efe3d88c1f199ff0cea43cb8ca) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: LMarkoya on February 22, 2015, 11:09:48 PM I for one vote for Luca including the parameter in the next release.....I could look for years and doubt if I'd find it :'(
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 23, 2015, 12:04:28 AM Wow, what a cool julia set O0
Are you using the correct distance estimator formula? I thought you need one for each formula, based on the grad or some sort of differential of the function. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: DarkBeam on February 23, 2015, 12:06:33 AM Mb3d does de automatically and I can't fix anything :)
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 23, 2015, 09:31:48 AM Wow, what a cool julia set O0 Are you using the correct distance estimator formula? I thought you need one for each formula, based on the grad or some sort of differential of the function. Glad you like it T ;) Like Luca said, I have no choice in M3D and I am convinced that it has troubles with this fractal. However, I found some nicer spirals during the weekend and I will do a big render with very low DE-settings of one of these (will take forever to render) and see what it looks like... I will post here when finished. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 25, 2015, 10:13:55 AM Well lets hope your handyKRAFT WERKs!
I'm liking these Mandelbrot variations, here's another pic from the dihedral version (http://nocache-nocookies.digitalgott.com/gallery/17/853_25_02_15_9_35_06.png) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 25, 2015, 10:19:05 AM Hmmm, the shape of that center spiral... I wonder if the right DE would reveal the spirals of the spiral in the 3D version, sure looks like it has the embryo of that shape in my render...
(http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20778.0;attach=10831;image) Nice images btw!! Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 27, 2015, 01:49:33 PM OK! Finally managed to show the spirals of spirals of spirals of the inside of a 3D julia of this interesting fractal...
Again comparing with Tglads 2D render: (http://nocache-nocookies.digitalgott.com/gallery/17/1002_27_02_15_1_46_33.jpeg) (http://nocache-nocookies.digitalgott.com/gallery/17/853_25_02_15_9_35_06.png) Thank you Tom and Luca! Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: kram1032 on February 27, 2015, 02:26:51 PM This looks incredible! :o
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: ericr on February 27, 2015, 02:49:45 PM it s wonderfull and amazing !!!
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 27, 2015, 03:37:56 PM It sure is... I wonder what more can be found in this fractal... come on guys, put some time on it!!! :beer: O0
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: youhn on February 27, 2015, 07:11:35 PM Wow, high quality sure looks nice! :beer:
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: hgjf2 on February 28, 2015, 08:18:35 AM Wow, high quality sure looks nice! :beer: Somehow this 3D Julia fractal "tglad" type is maybe this Julia set presented by AEXION on his "deviantart" and on his restricted site WWW.RFRACTALS.NET Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on February 28, 2015, 10:26:23 AM Somehow this 3D Julia fractal "tglad" type is maybe this Julia set presented by AEXION on his "deviantart" and on his restricted site WWW.RFRACTALS.NET Which Julia set? Do you have a link directly to it? @youhn :beer: O0 Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on February 28, 2015, 11:18:04 AM In fragmentarium it works ok using the standard Mandelbulb distance estimator, since the radius is doing the same thing (attached).
This is faster and seems to render better than the no distance estimator version. Just had a thought, where there is stretch, there is nothing stopping the camera from adjusting its own transform as it approaches and zooms into a stretched area. With a bit of programming this would avoid things getting overly stretched as you zoom. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: hgjf2 on March 01, 2015, 11:01:27 AM Which Julia set? Do you have a link directly to it? A link is AEXION.DEVIANTART.COM where can find a 3D Julia like as in this topic@youhn :beer: O0 Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: cKleinhuis on March 01, 2015, 11:06:27 AM :hrmm:
i would say THIS is a link: http://aexion.deviantart.com/ A link is AEXION.DEVIANTART.COM where can find a 3D Julia like as in this topic Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: 0Encrypted0 on March 01, 2015, 12:24:45 PM The question was Which Julia set? Do you (hgjf2) have a link directly to it (the image)?
Aexion currently has over 300 images posted on deviantart. Also: a point of clarification: AFAIK http://www.rfractals.net (http://www.rfractals.net) is not restricted. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on July 10, 2015, 10:13:34 AM Been a busy weekend... O0 Already printable model, check out the 3D-view on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/DK77VP9TM/?key=8c5e126b1f7b45b76a85b8dbaa949f81 (http://images.shapeways.com/model/picture/625x465_3158543_9154342_1424611241.jpg?key=961537efe3d88c1f199ff0cea43cb8ca) (http://images.shapeways.com/model/picture/625x465_3158543_9154342_1424611241.jpg?key=961537efe3d88c1f199ff0cea43cb8ca) I just sold one print of this on Shapeways O0 - 3€ profit goes to the forum as promised... but I can't find the paypalbutton Christian... Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: cKleinhuis on July 16, 2015, 02:45:04 PM it pops up randomly below the banners ;) but it seems to be gone, paypal account would be:
donate@fractalforums.com Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: kram1032 on July 16, 2015, 07:05:27 PM hmm, that cavernous design isn't bad at all. Though how would that same shape look like if spherically inverted? All that spiral structure would end up on the outside (though it might be distorted in unsatisfactory ways)
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: KRAFTWERK on July 17, 2015, 08:27:53 AM hmm, that cavernous design isn't bad at all. Though how would that same shape look like if spherically inverted? All that spiral structure would end up on the outside (though it might be distorted in unsatisfactory ways) I actually think I tried to do that, but I will check it out again. (and the parameters are included in Lucas last update of M3D, it is among the example parameters... very slow to render already without inversion ;) ) it pops up randomly below the banners ;) but it seems to be gone, paypal account would be: donate@fractalforums.com All right, my small contribution will come during the day Christian! ;) Done! :angel1: Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: pupukuusikko on September 04, 2015, 11:36:33 PM hmm, that cavernous design isn't bad at all. Though how would that same shape look like if spherically inverted? All that spiral structure would end up on the outside (though it might be distorted in unsatisfactory ways) I've been trying to achieve this for a while now and finally succeeded. ;D For those who'd like to experiment in Mandelbulb3D, the recipe I used is: _SphereInvC + TGladTetra (with 'Repeat from here' on tetra), julia parameters around x=-2.5, y=0, z=0.9 . (http://orig09.deviantart.net/21a8/f/2015/247/1/c/inside_out_by_pupukuusikko-d98d4gs.jpg) Btw, I have been obsessively exploring this great fractal for a while now. Check the gallery http://pupukuusikko.deviantart.com (http://pupukuusikko.deviantart.com) if you are interested, there are many spirals to be found. :) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: kram1032 on September 04, 2015, 11:49:17 PM Looks neat! Very interesting details :)
Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on September 08, 2015, 01:24:08 AM That's really cool,
I like your gallery too, especially your Giger one http://pupukuusikko.deviantart.com/art/Gigeresque-554631327 :beer: Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: pupukuusikko on September 09, 2015, 10:04:11 AM That's really cool, I like your gallery too, especially your Giger one http://pupukuusikko.deviantart.com/art/Gigeresque-554631327 :beer: Thanks, but I'm afraid I have to take my previous claim back a bit. While the spirals in my image seemed very similar to the inside spirals of Kraftwerk, they actually were not from the actual inside, just hidden in the folds of the fractal. When applying sphere inversion to the inside spirals, they do move to the outer surface, but they still stay technically on the negative side, with the drawbacks of difficult navigation and slow and noisy inside rendering. Example: http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Overseer-559235190 (http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Overseer-559235190) Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: Tglad on September 10, 2015, 05:06:49 AM So in your picture 4 posts up, how did you get such detail if it is a negative space spiral? Or did it just take a long long time? :)
I get the feeling this is closing in on the answer to what the 3D version of a fractal spiral would look like. We've seen various 3D spirals before, but I like the way these edges curl up a bit like a fern. Title: Re: 2d/3d conformal formulas for a tetrahedral projection Mandelbrot Post by: pupukuusikko on September 10, 2015, 08:42:50 AM So in your picture 4 posts up, how did you get such detail if it is a negative space spiral? Or did it just take a long long time? :) Sorry for confusion. That picture was generated in positive space and originated from vanilla positive spirals of your fractal. The vanilla spirals can be seen in http://pupukuusikko.deviantart.com/art/False-Inside-Spirals-559384484 (http://pupukuusikko.deviantart.com/art/False-Inside-Spirals-559384484), julia parameters (0.18, -0.25, 0.09). So sphere inversion in that case was redundant, except for aesthetic purposes. The confusion arose, because I thought mandelbulb3d sphere inversion would swap negative and positive space, whereas it just switches inside to outside, in a colloquial sense. I get the feeling this is closing in on the answer to what the 3D version of a fractal spiral would look like. We've seen various 3D spirals before, but I like the way these edges curl up a bit like a fern. Indeed these spirals seem fern like, varying the julia parameters, you can make them grow from bud to more open spiral quite organically. Unfortunately, no leaves appear :dink: . |