Welcome to Fractal Forums

As a music producer I have been intrigued by the study of Cymatics for sometime now. Having become more engrossed in creating digital 3d fractal art over the past year or so, I have recognised a similarity between Cymatic patterns and the 3d Mandelbulb structures created using software such as Mandelbulb3D. I apologise in advance but any references to Fractal formations will be based on my use of this program.

I did run a search to see if I could find any current threads discussing this field, but it turned up nothing, so I thought I should kick start one. I apologise if this is already being discussed elsewhere on the forums, but I couldn't find it.

Here is a brief video describing the basics of Cymatics - rather impressive I think you'll agree, I especially like the Pink Flloyd visualisation and would love to 'see' the whole track!

http://www.youtube.com/v/CsjV1gjBMbQ?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0

The Chladni plate vibrations remind me of cross-sections through the Amazing Box formula and the images produce by the 'Cymascope' show resemblance to the '8th power triplex math sine bulb' produced by the Integer Power formulae (I think that is the correct description - I'm new to thinking about these forms in this way, usually I load the formulae and simply hunt for aesthetically pleasing forms, so please excuse my lack knowledge of technical terms).

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this thread but i'm just going to run with it and hope i don't make a complete tit out of myself in the process!!

I first noticed Cymatic action while I was at work on a bar in a nightclub. The bass was so loud and intense that I noticed the beer in the drip trays forming patterns. Here's a (rather poor quality and loud) video i took of this happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxqB4Ix4J9g

It's not so clear from the video but that pattern was forming a perfect 'raised' grid pattern on the meniscus of the beer. One of the customers actually thought he had been spiked with something when he spotted it.

Here is a very nice site about cymatics http://www.cymatics.org and I advise you to have a play with a Chladni plate, it's pretty good fun)

I have attempted to experiment with forming these patterns by mounting a deep plastic saucer ( about 3 inch deep and 8 inch diameter) onto the cone of a speaker driver. I then used the program Max/Msp to generate a pure tone to play throught the speaker once the saucer was full of water. Unfortunately I have no footage of this but I can guarantee you it was pretty awesome (in the true sense of the word). Some amazing images where generated when I ran this setup and mounted a laser pen to reflect off the surface of the water. I will have to re-make the rig and record this to post here.

Anyway I am detracting from my original point which was the likeness I see between these naturally occurring 'Cymandelic Bulbs' (I know i'm just making terminology now, but hey why not!) and the digitally produced Mandelbulbs. Thats enough of my babbling, I'm interested to hear what you guys think. Here's a couple of images as food for thought (images produced by cymatics.org using the 'Cymascope' you should go check out more of their gallery!!)

Chladni plate patterns ( found at http://solawakening.com/cymatics/ )
(http://solawakening.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cymatics.jpg)

14Hz Square Wave and water
(http://www.janmeinema.com/cymatics/images/desktops/1280x800_ver/blue_cymatics_desktop_005.jpg)

16Hz Sine Wave and water
(http://www.janmeinema.com/cymatics/images/cymatics_gallery/cymatics_image_kipper.jpg)

it has been discussed before, and right now we just know about resemblances, perhaps someone will find a true usage for the 3d mathematical formulas we create here to find the connections between thinks, i would not be surprised if fundamental knowledge lies behind the structures we explore just because they are looking nice and complex, knowing that such complex structures within the fractals are created through such simple iterations processes ( more or less simple ) a connection lies especially in the way repeating processes create solid outputs, e.g. the sound wave visualisation on the sand plate can be seen as a strange attractor for this exact sound wave

just my 5cents ;)

Awesome!

Pieces of a puzzle gather together.
In last years last week one of my best friends gave me a; Tech signal generator model TE-20
It reminded me of the radio devices in my army-truck 20 years ago.
it's a device from the late sixties ,able to produce frequenties from 120KHZ to 260 MHZ

Would it be possible to combine sound with the mandelbulb formula with for example Processings? ( http://www.processing.org/ )

I agree, it's the implications of that resemblance and how it could help us understand the universe that excite me. Studies in bioresonance therapy hint at the powerful influence sounds have on our physical being on a molecular level, it being able to cause damage or to promote healing depending on the natural resonant frequencies of the matter that makes up our bodies.  Taking that further, as Evan Grant speculates about the 'immense sound' of the universe forming, that would have had ultimately 'set parameters' for the structures that formed, a form of aural algorythym (I know it is spelt wrong, but it seems fitting!). Looking at it from that point of view, having observed the 'self-similar' nature of the universe, are we not living in and part of a multidimensional fractal entity. What possibilities await us if we discover the underlying 'formula' of the universe as we know it? …………….Oh my God I just re-read all that and i'm going to stop because I sounding like an organic, tofu weaving, freerange, cornfed hippy. Sorry about that.

Sorry i didn't spot you post, must have posted while i was typing away. I have no idea where you would begin. To what purpose would you do this. To create the visuals? If so then if you check the cymatics.org site there are instructions on how to build you own cymascope i believe.

Thank you.
Will check it after reply.
To create visuals yes.
The generator is producing sounds you do not hear too and most of the sounds you can hear are annoying and some do even hurt.

Instead of sand on a plate forming 2d images it would be great to produce 3d images with sound or to use as a transformation formula for bulbs and boxes.

Note to self ; placing a filled fishtank in front of a,full-range 600W active speaker and pump >128 db trough the water to see the effects.

Ever wondered why all dogs begin to bark at the same time each and every day?
Yes?
Than you live near me  :D

Yes the 3D implementations of this can be amazing, just watching the beer in the drip tray as i filmed the 2nd video was truly amazing. Make sure you check out cymatics .org as they go into much more detail than i am capable of giving, but the 'cymascope' is designed to capture the 3d visual impact of the bubbles that form sound. Yes sound travels in waves, but not in a straight directional line, it spreads out in like ripples from a stone dropped in water. But where the ripples are restricted to the surface of the water sounds can spread out in a spherical manner. If someone could full master large scale, realtime, fully observable visualisations of soundwaves in an open 3d space . . . . . . .  well just think of going to watch your favourite band and also being able to 'watch' their music

Its probably more complex interference of waves. Aproximate of wave imitation as itareted function probably could generate that, but on monitor it's not so interesting than in nature.

Probably this thing on more complex geometry would create more complex interferance pictures, say on hexagonal glass and octagon plate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics)

:rotfl: that equals a Marilyn Manson-Michael Hybrid singing Dr.Quackr advertisement tunes at breakfast.

A good start is half the job.I found out that I do not have any direct neighbours.
The one living under me does not count. Prolly deaf because he/she never complains about the almost 24/7 noise here.
Problem is to place water above my speaker. Only have 8 of those Novanex monsters and they are not build anymore.
Laserlight is a good idea.
Maybe glow in the dark markerfilling in the water and blacklight above it will give cool effects too.

Posting results soon.

Wow I've seen shapes just like these in certain 2D cellular automaton!! That's nuts. I suppose it makes sense because the automaton propagates similar to a wave but it really is a striking resemblance. Perhaps I'll get some pictures together and show you!

In my 2nd rig i removed the cone of the speaker and using a thin metal tube mounted a metal dish directly to the coil. It gave really good results and I could drive much higher frequencies without transmitting as much sound. Even if your not removing the cone i wouldn't use any speakers that you ever want to use normally again.

I am more worried about the amplifier VS water.

 Can I use ultra low and ultra high frequenties without damage?
Is there a sound that makes me normal ?
 Will I become crazy again because of happiness?

I guess 5 Kw is not needed and yes,I still want to use my soundsystem for "normal" events.
Would be cool to have some sound sensitive lavalamp during those events.

Funny you should mention that! Here's some lava lamp sensitive sounds!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oWuJ_Isci6k

Also as long as you use a long enough speaker cable amplifier vs water shouldn't be an issue. You can use ultra low and high frequencies without damage, but go too low and the tone stop being perceived as a single sound and becomes a series of individual pulses (below around 16Hz), and the water will just jump about rather than for lovely patterns.