Welcome to Fractal Forums

I have to comment on a somewhat off-topic post made by foxglove in another thread regarding a deep zoom to E214:


First, to answer FractalWizz, this is indeed on Vimeo, on the Teamfresh channel.

As for what constitutes "deepest" -- that is complicated.

It's kind of like what's the "tallest" building. It depends on how you measure it. Do you count just any structure, including those that are not inhabitable? Do you include spires? How about antennas? Do you differentiate free-standing structures from those requiring guy-wires? Do you count the underground component of the structure? How about underwater structures like oil platforms?

"Deepest" is not a precisely defined attribute by itself becuase there are some variables here:

1. What resolution? A 640x480 video is quite a different thing from a 320x240 or a 1280x720.

2. What frame rate? 10 fps is much easier than 30 fps.

3. Were shortcuts used? Some fractal software provides various "guessing" algorithms that don't quite capture all the detail in a fractal, but do a decent job approximating it.

4. Is key-frame interpolation used? The Universe#3X video was rendered without any key frame interpolation. I don't know about Teamfresh's e214 video, but I suspect it used interpolation. This technique can reduce the rendering time by a factor of 10 easily, sometimes more. I have nothing against it as such, but it does make things a lot easier.

(see http://www.hpdz.net/TechInfo_Animation.htm#Frame_Interpolation for more on this).

Then there's the most important thing:

5. IS IT INTERESTING!!??

I've made some zooms to e100 or more that are kind of boring -- but mercifully short (see www.hpdz.net and look for E100 and Centanimus -- my daughter loves E100 and calls it "noodles"). The filamentous areas near (-2,0) and (0,+/-1) are very easy to render but basically very dull. I think my Prima Luce does OK in this area but teeters right on the edge of being boring. It is saved by the background colors changing as they do.

Then there's the zoom to E1003 or something like that by phaumann on YouTube that I'm sure we've all seen that I swear would outperform most sleeping pills in controlled trials for insomina if you projected it on a large screen in a dark room...It's a great technical accomplishment, but what is its artistic merit?

Deeper isn't always better ... it's the structures that are revealed by going deeper that make deeper worth the effort.

That said, this e214 animation, in my opinion, is OK but not great. I think it zooms in way too much up front for no reason other than just to go deep. The same structures could have been visualized without zooming so deeply, and it gets kind of boring waiting for something new to emerge.

So let's not focus so much on the number after the E. Technically and artistically, there's a huge amount to do and see from E20-E100.

great points, especially the last! personally i don't understand the zoom-obsession, in my mind it ignores the astounding breadth of fractal art!

it's a bit like coca cola bringing out limitless new flavours and everyone just can't get enough of them... sometimes i want orange juice or a milkshake :P

Don't forget infinite depth zooms (loops).
(http://a.deviantart.com/avatars/c/r/craig-m.gif?1)

Ugh...actually, I HAD forgotten them. :vomit:

But I think I may have stumbled on a whole new art form: the Infinite Zoom OUT! Here is an image showing an approximation of what this might look like. I had to limit the zoom-out factor due to limitations of my software and also because if I zoomed out to infinity, too much detail would be lost.  ;)  :dink:

(http://www.fractalforums.com/gallery/0/359_23_01_09_4_40_27.jpg)

great job, this must be 1.0+e83 wonderful ;)

Hey HPDZ.NET.
I have seen that one and I agree with you.
But this is a big technical feat.
1280 by 720 to e+214  with 4x Anti-aliasing. took him a month.
After reading what you just said, I don't feel like rendering my e+254 zoom.
It goes through some VERY interesting areas and a couple shapes you haven't ever seen before.
But, you have made me feel that going really deep is bad. :(

Oh, no. I didn't mean to make anyone feel bad. And I'm certainly not against deep zooms (that is, after all, what the DZ is in HPDZ!)

It's just that I don't think deep is the whole story -- there's plenty of interesting stuff to see around E60-E100. Going to E254 or E1000 or whatever is fine as long as there's something there that can't be seen at less-deep magnifications. Zooming into an area for 45 seconds without adding any new structural features can get kind of boring.

So please, if you have something interesting at E254, don't let me stop you!

It's actually the hardware that is sort of stopping me from rendering it. expects 5 months nonstop.
I am still having trouble finding awesome areas, although I do have one in the render list.

the ultrafractal wiki has a great article on mandelbrot midgets

http://ultrafractalwiki.fractalforums.com/Deep_Zooms

 O0 O0

am i featured in it?  ;D

.... ? right now there is most content from ultrafractal mailing lists, and many ultrafratcal5 example files, i think right now you are not featured in ... :(

I just want to say a few things here because to be honest - I never intended to render the trip to e214 to be a ground breaking fractal zoom - and I certainly will admit i did hit some low detail areas early on to allow a deeper zoom to be rendered in a shorter amount of time. I also felt that by doing this It would give more "space" later on in the animation - which it did.

I dont think that I have created the deepest fractal zoom ever, thats just stupid - there are more factors to deciding the "depth" of an animation than the magnification level. and I also agree that there is a lot to see in between e10 - e100 and I would hope that that is reflected in my other videos on vimeo. notably the trip to e75/e65 and e49 -

However I also know that since I released e214 on the internet a year ago it has become a very very popular video on vimeo - with over 100,000 views - 270 likes - and well over 50 comments in the LAST WEEK ALONE. As well as giving my other animations more exposure than i could have ever have asked for, it has also brought great attention to the HD fractal trips group on vimeo, which, as you know - showcases the very best of HD fractal animations that all vimeo members have to offer, I  created that group, I designed the graphics for it and I am glad that I am able to bring more attention to - and promote other fractal artists in this way.

That said, a lot of comments have been made regarding e214 on vimeo - and on the 50+ other websites where the video has been embedded. I have tried to follow all threads created by these embeds and that has been like trying to explore a fractal in itself!

I have noted all the criticisms and comments regarding what people are looking for in their fractal trips and will use this to make my next zoom even better than the last. its coming soon.....

That is the way with all creations made for public viewing.  Most everybody will have an opinion of some sort.  And as long as you consider the valid "criticisms and comments", and disregard the hecklers, your future endeavors should only improve.

Looking forward to what you have "coming soon".    ;)
 

Thanks. Its true what you say, I think its a shame you can never please everyone - however hard you try - but it just the way of the world and as you pointed out, I will listen to the people who give me valid points and I will try to act on them where possible. :)