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Probably it happened to all of you that somebody form outside FF took parameters from your work and used for his own business ... well it happened to me and im sure that it happened to you as well
I see lately on FB so many artworks toked from DA and fractal forum
My question is if Jess could implement such a script when you save your params a password is generated along with so when somebody try to open it it'll ask for the password and the only person who has it , is the one that created the fractal ...thaht way it'll be fair for all and thief's from outside wont be able to take everything for free without learning....i mean this beautiful softwares should be learned and used in the right way , sharing parameters sometimes has the opposite result leading to stealing instead of study, i mean a real fatalist would take time to understand the formulas and the fractal software that he's using ....im referring here at Mandelbulb 3D, probably it'll boost artists creative power by force them to learn and understand the program instead of tweaking same parameterrs over and over.
Please dont take it personally, im not intending to say anything, but i see so many copy's of copy's on DA on FF on FB, once passwrod is implemented , probably the diversity of fractals will raise...

Is justa ideea...i assume the responsibility for what im saying here and if is not a good idea , then im sorry...it was just a personal idea , dont have to take as a personal atack , but probably you would love to prtect in a way your work and not aloud to any oustsider to have free acees to your hard work for free...

Thx and i wait reply ...  wink


with repsect !
Tahyon

This could be done with something like PGP (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy). At first I thought it was pointless, because you simply don't publish your params, and only share by request, privately, with the ones you want. But it could be annoying to send params anytime some of your trusted contacts request them (you have to look for the desired param, find it, copy&paste, send msg). But by encoding params always with the same passkey you distribute with the ones you want to share with, could be really helpful, and it's a good idea indeed.

I don't know if Jesse will have the time to do something like this, but I can write a simple clipboard encrypter/decrypter, so you copy the params to the clipboard, run the program to encrypt the clipboard contents with a password and then paste the encrypted params. The ones who wants to get the params, obviously must have this program also to decrypt the clipboard before pasting to M3D, using the password you gave them. What do you think?

Hello Tahyon,

it is clear that publishing parameters is always a kind of gift to the public, so it is up to you if you want it or not.
Many people also change the parameters slightly to not give away all work like the lighting, just alter it with a light preset and a quality preset as well if you like.
In this forum a password protected zip archive would be another possibility, for example, but i see no urgent need for this because you could send them to specific persons directly, instead of sharing a password in a non-public way  :hmh:

Just a few quick thoughts, with respect to all artists and sharer of parameters,
J.

I agree with Jesse on this one. You choose to share or not share your params.....this is done on an image by image basis. There will always be someone to steal your image, your idea or technique, encryption will not change this. As an artist you share or not share. Personally, I very much appreciate everyone who shares params, as I'd rather be painting fractals in my artwork than spending countless hours discovering things that others have already. So...it comes down to individual feelings. Do you think your fractal is valuable? (really?) Do you care if it is copied? Then you should not post params.
I have used starters for several works, I give credit almost always, but am always thankful for anyone who posts params...
To me, they are the jump off point, at times a life saver, and an inspiration
Posting starter params is part of what made FF so special
And I am sure I am not the only one....
Sure you, Torsten, Johan and others don't use them, but for mere mortals, they are what the doctor ordered and I'm thankful they are there to use (without having the key to open them :D )

If you read my previous message, I thought the same at first, and I also think is pointless if the idea is to password-protect each params with different passwords and then sharing the password by request (I mean, just send them the params instead! ;D). But if you have, let's say, 20 people you want to share params without certain people having the access to it, you'll have to send 20 PM's, or maybe use a closed group on a social network like Facebook, wich is not very handy... and also if 2 months after publishing a work, someone request your params, you have to look for the file, extract the params, send PM, etc. - This could be easily done if you give the pass to certain persons and always share the params using the same pass. It doesn't have to be a gift to either ALL the public or nobody, it's not a bad idea to share only with the ones you want in an easy way, I think. As a fractal artist (let's pretend I can be called an artist ;D) I'm not specially jealous of my works, but it's not funny when someone is not giving credit after taking something from you, or even worse, claiming it as own work.

Anyway I can work on a handy param crypter, don't waste your time on this, Jesse, keep making M3D even more awesome instead ;D

i think that this would be a good addition to m3d (for those who create unique pieces of fractal art of course) .... but the parameters should still be available for every fractal-forums member if not for the ''outside world''. otherwise such a change could easily generate distinctions. what if a member is denied the use of some parameters ??isn't this a bit unfair ??

Yes it is... :) 

Yes, if i had read it  :dink:

Ok, this is a special case that makes sense, but a seperate crypter would be also quite handsome... if you could make this it would be nice!


Unfortunately i have not much time for programming at the moment, and further improvements would be much time intensitive because of much internal changes that had to be done  :-\

Nevertheless m3d is already become much more than i ever expected, for me its ok  :beer:

Hmmm ... I'm not sure if there's a big difference if params or a password is going round. But an embezzled master password is much worse than one "stolen" parameter. Right?

Edit: But if it's possible to export "untweakable" and unreadable parameters or animation files? This could be useful for a renderfarm. Autohotkey remoting m3d for example ...

is just a ideea, of course  everybody is free to share its parameters if he want, but i was talking about what hapenned to me ...that a local t-shirt printing company took the params form the eye of anubis , render it at higher res and printed on t-shirt....of course nobody put me to share the params of my work , but i wanted to share with friends on FF not with thief around the world, thats why i came with this idea, which is just a idea...also sharing parameters has lead to oposite results instead of study, they end up tweaked over and over again with no diversity whatso ever....anyway ...i just try to come with a ideea to protect M3D users...of course everybody si free to share them or not, but a optional bult in crypting parameter  save would be welcome if is not much trouble with

Is just a idea, maybe not a good one at the end, so im sorry for that !;) :beer: :beer:

i think as option it is not bad at all, BUT if you publish your formula with a passwort, or say somewhere how your password is, i dont see how this could prevent people from using it ... on orbittrap.ca there was a discussion about how far goes the propriety of an artist, basically changing just one parameter would make a totally new copyright issue, check this posting:

"Can you really copyright an Ultra Fractal parameter file?"
http://orbittrap.ca/?p=1867

just my five cent.

when i listen to the net i hear on one hand complaint about copyright issues with music in animations, on the other hand problems with rip offs of original fractal art work.
there is no valid solution for both problems, but one thing obviously noone here thougt about: giving your parameter a license - creative commons seems to be apt and is available for almost any purpose. for sure, if someone really wants to steal your work, no license will hinder him, but to be honest, pasting parameters without any addition is like an invitation to rip them off.

imho encrypting is more like cracking nuts with a slegdehammer...

but as said, just my five cent. ;D

a encrypted parameter wont  open in M3D unless the password is provided, at least thats how i imaged, makes no sense at first view, but thiefs wont have acces anymore to free params.....im worried about the thiefs hat come here with no restriction , im not worried of the fair users of the softwares...i will always share with themand im sure that anybody will do same, but i see guys from FB coming here ripping and posting on facebook as they own work , thats something thats really crank me up...not sharing params because those thiefs is not fair for the fair comunitty , thats why i asked if possible password encrytpion in the params so they wont be able to open it in M3D without password...that way users can post params in safe way and if someone like it he can ask him for the pass...i will always share that way, but i really dont want that guys from facebook that has nothign to do with fractals are ripping for free...

Also the simple view of the parameters with image without being able to open it it'll make thiefs loosing their mind hahahahah, is a mean way to make them stay away ...:))lol

Hmm, I can't see the point here. If you publish params then for tweaking or educative purposes. So the sense is that other people copy them. And if you want to keep them secret then you don't publish them :-)
Of course, there are always poor people who just copy the stuff and claim that's their own. But this is a general problem and can not be solved. For example some of them download my pictures from dA and upload them at other sites as their own.

So the idea itself to adress those kind of problems is good, but I think it will not work.

Best regards

it's a kind of kick in the balls for thiefs , they can see the parameter and in theyr hury to steal it they try to open it and BINGO :)))) suprise...password .....of course nobody has to share parameters if they dont want...
it makes no sense after all , but i would want to share my parameters with thiefs that way encrypted, image thier face and disappointment :))
It was justa ideea, i was saying that ti much thiefs acces params for free
Please don't take it personally, is just another stupid ideea of mine ;)

please don't take personal, but i think i see your point now.
what you want is not fair use, what you want is revenge!

Of course i want a fair use.... im always for fair use , but against theifs that stole everything , i understand you Torsten !;)

is not about me ...not at all , is about users and artists that are ripped...i would like to have sort of protection but if it has no real mean, then is just a idea....i dont want to revenge on anybody but i would like to see their faces when they cant open it ....for the rest we can share the params as  till now, i have nothing against sharing , i have something with those thiefs and as i said is not just about me ...

Since copyright protection on computer games, video and music is completely and utterly pointless how anyone can think that some sort of protection for parameter files is a good idea is beyond me.
If you don't want a parameter file ripped off, then don't share it in public, if you want to share a technique then produce a simple render that uses it and share that - it's not rocket science.
If you don't want a print-size image ripped off then don't share a print-sized image. etc. but worrying about folks ripping off web-sized images say up to 1280 pixels in the largest dimension is a waste of time and energy.

for sure, i know. just thought, that it's not your main intension.

@David
yeah, couldn't say better!  ;D

beyond that i still believe in humans. those thieves are not a dark faceless crowd of demons, they are humans.
let him who is without sin cast the first stone.  :pray:
i'm fully convinced, that you can avoid at least 50% of possible theft, just by marking your params as not public domain.

lets forget about the password thing, but there must be a better way so we can share here on FF prams without being ripped, i don't know , i am for sharing, but in a safe mode and for FF community.....thief's are humans too?hahahah.... I lived long enough to hear that too! That was really funny one Torsten!;) :beer: :beer: :beer:

one rule for ff was always that everything is visible for non registered users, this is because else no one would get informed about what is going on here, some forums offer some kind of "spoiler" plugin, so that attachments are only available for registered users, since mb3d files are easily shared via copy and paste, this should be some kind of of tagging system like [spoilerjustforregisteredusers]content to be protected [/spoilerjustforregisteredusers] but i am unsure how to search for a plugin for that, if someone knows about such a smf modification let me know....

My intention was not really about password protection but more for safely share params on FF for the FF comunitty without being ripped from outsiders...something like that..i know is impossible to protect anything and its pointless to do that , but if FF will  offer a safe zone where we can share parameters away for public eye, that would be even greater ....thats was my real intention....

yay, i am going to look out for something like this, so, if anyone has a hint for me point me to it!

 @tahyon we came to the result that for the usability of the forums we wont have any restricted area, so, you should act like this:

- share them publicly
- do not share them
- share them on request.

works fine that way too! :beer: :beer:

just to bring back to mind. a good compromise is, to give your parameters absurd light, depth and gamma settings. the geometry is left untouched and a noob won't be able to bring out its beauty. in m3d very easy to make. ;D

... and the noob will write a bug report coz his MB3D appears to be broken...  ;D

now i understand everything!  A round beer for everyone  :D

 :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I fluffing hate noobs ..lol  :tease:, i like to terror  them on Facebook :evil1: , otherwise i'll be bored to death ..hahahahah...sick of all the crap on DA and FB.....beer for everyone ...for noobs too :))hahahah   :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

their not even noobs , their spammers , absolutelly spamming with tones of fractals/day , now i dont think the Jesse or kali created this beautiful softwares just for stupid noobs without any real interes for fractals use it in a very stupid way ... thats why im so sick on them and evry time i have the chance on FB i rip a part of their soul and hang it on my wall as tropheee...:))hahaha

some people  like to explain them in a kind way till their realise that their talking to the walls...i got no patience with that , i prefer to take them by the neck , hit them against the wall 3-4 times , rip the fluffing souls of them and thats all  :evil1:hahahah...got no patience with them anymore........specially those from facebook ...lol 

calm down bro  :dink:
you ruin your vibes...

You people are evil. :-X :-X

Only share them by direct mail with those you're sure won't pass them on without express permission...

I do respect those ones that really try to learn, i got no problem with them, i only have a problem with fractal spammers that really bring a shame on the whole community....but yeah everybody is free to use it as he can and he imaged..... :beer: :beer:

IMHO not only useless, but alsou evil feature. It reminds me when I bought my Nokia smartphone (pretty old now) and searched for cool new stuff. There were much cool stuff, but it didn't worked, becouse majority of totaly free Nokia screen themes had date on it, which had expired. Most of users are stupid, they will uses this even if it is completelly unnecesary.

There are 2 notable M3D features, it is hybridisation and sharing. Parameter sharing is like putting lots of minds together, most of cool pics wouldn't existed if there were no sharing. Even if users consider modificated shared hybrids creations of their genius. But then or you share or not.

But credits or comments in shared parameters would be more interesting. Of corse, parameters should be backward compatible. But then you'll get interesting histories of hybrids and full authorships of parameters.

And more poetic and self describing names would be nice. Bristorbrot or tricorn sounds nice, so I picked it. AbVarSecBr2 just don't sounds too encouraging to try it. This is just to notice;)

yeah DRM your parameters ... the 90s called they want their stoic business practices back

2012 called and asked if you realize you are replying to years old conversations!

Sockratease
i was thinking the same thing

DRM has never worked and NEVER will
the only people it HARMS are the ones PAYING for that restriction
--  the paying customers --

but as necro posts go
2012 is a rather fresh corpse

over on Linuxquestions yesterday we had one from 2003

well i was not on this forum in 2012 .. seeing how low the activity here is, you would think resurrecting old discussions is a good thing :)

Fractals is about sharing.   All that's needed is the original authors name and email embedded in the parameters.
Just because I discover something doesn't mean I own it.  This is not like an invention.
It's exploring mathematical space.  
You can't copyright an equation.

unfortunately copyright law is insane.

in an ideal world fractal parameter files would have metadata with authorship history (names and dates, preferably with email and/or web addresses) - better if it is a bit more specific, for example you could take a formula from one author, a location from another author, palette from a third author, etc - knowing who did which aspect would be useful too.  at a grander scale it would be useful to know what each author changed, together with comments as to why they changed it - sounds like decentralized version control, something a bit like git

Absolutely yes!

Resurrecting old discussions is a good thing!!

If you note, I was responding to your comment about old business practices and pointing out that, at that time, you made a run of quite a few posts in very old topics.

No problems with that at all.  If anybody mistook my sarcasm for a serious complaint about posting in old topics, I apologize.  That was never my intent.  My sarcasm often comes out wrong...   :gum:

By all means, everybody please feel free to bring up old topics if you have something to contribute to a discussion.