Welcome to Fractal Forums

As promised Jesse, Here is a bug report about a crash:

What I was doing: Trying to save out the zbuff from this set of parameters:

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
X.....k1...E9...0....2Q...kErmiQnpW0.jGc/fZ37W1EMPHSgLHAJy9ilvxZuSllzQRX9JiYFFzD
................................69HyMRXAgz1........Y./..................y.2.....
................/w.5/.....EtF...G.....E4......yBCH7wfGqD/w.........G1dkpXm1....U
./EnAnID12../..........wz..................................u1....y1...sD...../..
.wX0LD0DJ5sZZrfdYxH0xupL4R05zchyV8gPF/kDS7b5D8pLOwvDfl7l3i3NzEQsCft2ojnjXxdhsdbZ
7wPXkLVhuUxCzAGUyHUMTFqD......2R3...l1....EnAnoD/2....sD..E.....................
.............oAnAr1...sD....../Sl9.gs3j.EZLw0.TSl9.Yu3j.kgLw0.xSl9......0....6..
.....orDZz1.......kzSwzzzP.U..6.P....61...EB....m.w/.c3..b.F....8/...I1.....SF52
...U.8YL8yzlcisz0tZWzTAe906.2c..zzzz...MarH7iXyD/oa4dabdnz1..........EU/X.kzzzD.
.UNE33e7qz1.OwTW.Bkyz0.gydCjx/tjWMX0.wzzzv/..S51vojwz0.UrlkCx9zD..6.......E.0c..
zzzz.................................2U.8.kzzzD.................................
/6U0.wzzz1....................................8cU0.E./2.zz/cU08../2E.szDU08c..2E
./EzT/8cU0.E./2.Qs5cU08../2E..bTU08c..2E./.ly/8cU0.E./2.Mw5cU08../2E.kqTU08c..2E
./.kz/8cU0.E./2....cU08.zz/cU08.yz1cU08.xz3cU08.................................
E6../E....E.....I....s....UMj3aQYZYFH/EN.IaQ..........................U1C....6U/
4MU........aNaNaNaNzzAnAnAnAnH0EMaNaNaN4I.YaNaNaNaNmzAMaNaNaNaujOaNaNaNqW.2.....
.............l0E.......UH.2.......k/.1.........EnAnAnAnA5.A........yzMaNaNaNaNyD
.....................2.....3.........wZIkxqRn.kQn/kEoE4.r/......................
.sU1....0MU/46.......YNaNaNaNatjnAnAnAnAny9........kzQaNaNaNaNyDCoWgRyyd..oAnAnA
nAHwzAnAnAnAXP2k........c.2........wz...........................................
................................/....E/...k.....T3IPVdLOiRaEjVrIHJYA.sKN........
............5g..Cwk1D6U./2......aNaNaNaNkzXNaNaNaNarzAnAnAnAngzD................
.............................MindsEye69.................kz1.....................
..........................................E.....I....2....kL4x4PYZaPb31.Z/......
...................................................../..........................
................................................................................
........................................................}

Now I believe that I know what is wrong here, and it might explain why some people get crashes, When I first put these parameters up for other people to use in my #M3D-Scrap-Yard on DeviantArt, the tag MindsEye69 (in RED and BOLD above) was in a different place as you can see here http://m3d-scrap-yard.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4sra8r (http://m3d-scrap-yard.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4sra8r). So you dont need to go to the link I will copypasta the params for you now:

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
X.....w....o0...0....2Q...EkOJL0Qxw/.D7RDygsd21E73ZfMwLYqxfpdKbIRTKhzkzrLsGKr5zj
................................cu4LbsbF/.2........Y./..................y.2.....
................/w.5/......0S...G.....E4.....oUTwlLdS1pD/w.........G0dkpXm1....U
z.EnAnID12../..........wz..................................u1....y1...sD...../..
.wX0LD0DHLPsyP7rExX8.BssgmFuyk7zsOszPvjDW/C99LO/ivfOj7iGZ.BIzkDtO5pV5LlD4oz8iiVj
xvPdtT1AJ/S3zCcPFHpmC1pD......YG3...47....EnAnoD/2....sD..E.....................
.............oAnAr1...sD....../Sz9.gsxj.EZrz0.TSz9.Yuxj.kgrz0.xSz9......0....6..
..................kz.wzzz1.U..6.P....61...EB....m....c3....F....8/...I1.....SF52
...U.8YL8yzlcisz0tZWzTAe906.2c..zzzz...MarH7iXyD/oa4dabdnz1..........2U.8.UQgk0.
.wUmc2beYz1.dA8E5Exwz0........../6U0.wzzz1................................E.0c..
zzzz.................................2U.8.kzzzD.................................
/6U0.wzzz1....................................8cU0.E./2.zz/cU08../2E.szDU08c..2E
./EzT/8cU0.E./2.Qs5cU08../2E..bTU08c..2E./.ly/8cU0.E./2.Mw5cU08../2E.kqTU08c..2E
./.kz/8cU0.E./2....cU08.zz/cU08.yz1cU08.xz3cU08.................................
E6../A....E.....I....s....UMj3aQYZYFH/EN.IaQ..........................U1C....6U/
4MU........MaNaNaNarzAnAnAnAn50EAnAnAnAnF.2........0.DnAnAnAnY.k.......UI.2.....
..............0E.......UH.2........2./..........nAnAnAnA5.A........yzMaNaNaNaNyD
.....................2.....3.........wZIkxqRn.kQn/kEoE4.r/......................
.........6U.4........YNaNaNaNatjnAnAnAnAny9........kzQaNaNaNaNyDCoWgRyyd..oAnAnA
nAHwzAnAnAnAXP2k........c.2........wz...........................................
................................/....E/...k.....T3IPVdLOiRaEjVrIHJYA.sKN........
............5g..................aNaNaNaNkzXNaNaNaNapzAnAnAnAnQyD................
........................................................kz1.....................
...........................MindsEye69.......}  <--- as you can see, my tag is 7 dots from the end. Somehow when they got re-loaded they were moved to the place in the params first listed in this post.

This, I believe is the cause of the error and the crash you see in this screenshot http://www.flickr.com/photos/77189343@N06/6838213592/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77189343@N06/6838213592/)

It seems to be common practice to add a tag like mine in the end of the params, and perhaps this is what is causing the errors people are getting. My suggestion is that Jesse add a text field in the interface where people can add a say 15-20 character tag or signature to thier params and have it insert them automatically in a place that would be non-destructive. People like to add this tagline because it identifies thier parameters for people who may have "accidentally" forgotten who they got thier parameters from to start with. This has happened to me when I returned to some old unfinished project to complete it, and I really wasn't sure where the particular set came from to start untill I saw the original artists tag DsyneGfx in the parameters and realized where I got it and was able to give him proper credit.

Thanks!

BTW: Before I tried to save that zbuff, my nav had become totally unresponsive to any formula changes or tweaks, so I decided to save it out and restart the program, but it turned out I got that error and clicking ok caused the program to shut down anyway. Luckily I had already saved the params. This is again also a good reason why the autosave function we were discussing in my other post would be good, because even though this is not a problem inherent in M3D, one can never predict what the user might do that might cause a crash, I understand that this is my fault since no one ever said that adding that tagline was an OK thing to do, and I myself knew that it was slightly risky to modify the parameters directly in that way. But there are a lot of people who do I, I merely copied the idea from DsyneGFX who does it with all of his parameters, so I figgured it was probably ok. Since I never had any issues till now I assumed as long as it was in the end in those empty ....'s that it was probably safe. I was obviously wrong. Still an autosave would be great for "user error", and a real tagline insertion method would also be a good thing!

dunno if it matters, but there are lots of differences between upper and lower params. i can't read machine code, but it lools like different parameters.

The problem was trying to save params during a Freeze, don't do it, it scrambles the code, found that out the hard way too. Adding a tag at the end is fine and works but if it somehow ends up in the middle of the code those params are wasted. I have noticed more Freeze-ups in 1.7.9.1 than in other versions, happens frequently, but if you just wait a bit and don't panic it almost always recovers in a few seconds...it just seems forever.

Fair enough, that seems like it could also be a valid reason.. as I stated I was just guessing as to the reason based on seeing the params were not the same, I wasn't aware that it scrambled them when you tried to save during a freeze, but now that you say it, it makes total sense. Still I always feel like I am doing something potentially bad when I insert my tag... it just feels wrong, but I do it anyway lol.

Oh I hear ya, first time I saw that I thought no way that can work but it seems to. I found out about saving params during a freeze first time it happened, I panicked and saved them, then it recovered and I went on my merry way. Later I checked the panic saved params they were not even close to what I had been working on and they didn't have a Tag either.

Why you must add that tag at all? :hmh:

Well I just do? Kind of a signature, and you will see it in the next persons params unless they change it. Interested to see how params wander.

It makes it yours for a minute, at least until someone changes it

I don't give any kind of guarantee, but if you have to tag, i would repace up to the least 12 dots before the end-bracket with the tag.

It replaces a double value that is not used yet in the program so far.

How about all the way at the end before "Close Bracket"

Most formulas are not using up to 15 parameters, so you could use also more dots in front of the close bracket.
Dots declares binary zeros, so if the val is just zero but the formula is using this value, you might be in trouble.

Good thing I have a short name then  :dink:

So I can assume this ............MindsEye69.......} safe, at least for now?

it would even be safe but i am not going to try to add/modify tags inside a assembly code...just a extra blanc space or a extra or missed dot may create havoc

also is not a readable code (for most of humans ) so what the point to add a tag that nobody will read because if many may wish to try the parameters nobody would read them

If the last used formula has only got 14 parameter or less, it should be safe.  With 15 pars you have to go to the last 12 dots.

These parameters are only binary values, no programming code that will be executed.  Of course changing of critical parts can cause still issues.