Title: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 04, 2006, 08:35:16 PM I prepose a reworking of the sections of the forums to
Proposal 2 Welcome to Fractal Forums _Fractal Community __Meet & Greet __Discuss Fractal Forums ___Moderate Fractal Forums (Join us) __Polls __Non-Fractal related topics __Fractal News across the world __Other [FAQ, List of fractal artists and there websites, link to Deviantart's fractal section, etc...] _Fractal Software __UltraFractal ___Formula ____Mandelbrot _____Julia _____Close Variations ____Newton _____Close Variations ____Nova _____Close Variations ____Bansley 1, 2 and 3 _____Close Variations ____Phoenix _____Close Variations ____Magnet _____Close Variations ____Lambda _____Close Variations ____Carr ___Colourings ____Inside Only ____Outside Only ____That Require the Formula Pixel ____Orbit Traps Based ____Slope or Emboss ____TIA ___Mappings ___Chalenges __Apophysis ___Chalenges __ElectricSheep __Chaoscope __Fractinit ___Needs somone who knows more about it to complete this list __Chaospro ___Needs somone who knows more about it to complete this list __Fractal eXtreme ___Mandelbrot ___Mandebrot Arbitrary and Complex Power ___Newton ___Complex Newton ___Nova ___AutoQuad ___Hidden Mandelbrot ___Barnsely 1, 2 and 3 ___Sierpinskis Triangle, Four Recursive Circles and Apollonian Packed Circles __Life32 or Mcell (Fractal related desscution only) ___Sierpinski triangle and Variations __Fractal.org ___Julius Ruis _Software Groups __Quaternion ___Julia ___Mandelbrot __Lindenmayer __Natralistic ___Landscapes __Sounds _Fractals As Math __Mandelbrot/Julia Type ___Mandelbrot ____Julia ___Newton ___Nova ___Bansley's ___Phoenix ___Magnet ___Lambda __IFS ___Flame __Strange Attractors ___2d ___3d __Lindenmayer __Sierpinski triangle __Natralistic Fractals ___Landscapes __Fractal Sounds ___Waveforms ___Midi ___Other __Statistics, Measurements and Trends __Chaos Theroy ___Bifurcation Theory ___Complex Analysis ___Brand New Theories _Rate my __Images ___Mandelbrot/Julia Type ___IFS ____Flame ___Strange Attractors ____2d ____3d ___Lindenmayer ___Natralistic Fractals ___Fractals in Nature (Photo's) __Video ___Mandelbrot/Julia Type ___Strange Attractors ____2d ____3d ___IFS ____Flame ___Lindenmayer ___Fractals in Nature ___The Best Movies [Locked from most people adding stuff] __Sounds/Music ___The Best Sounds [Locked from most people adding stuff] _Other __Other __History __Fractal Compression ___Audio Compression ___Data Compression ___Image Compression ___Movie Compression Proposal 1 Welcome to Fractal Forums _Fractal Community __Meet & Greet __Discuss Fractal Forums ___Moderate Fractal Forums (Join us) __Polls __Non-Fractal related topics __Fractal News across the world __Other [FAQ, List of fractal artists and there websites, link to Deviantart's fractal section, etc...] _Fractals __Mandelbrot/Julia etc... Type Fractals ___Mandelbrot ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Mandelbrot's Julia _____Rate My Image _____Rate My Movie _____Math ____Close Variations ____Math ___Newton ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___Nova ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___Bansley's ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___Phoenix ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___Magnet ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___Lambda ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___AutoQuad and Hidden Mandelbrot ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Close Variations ____Math ___Other Spacific Fractals (List) ____Julius Ruis _____Rate My Image _____Rate My Movie _____Close Variations ___Rate My Image ___Rate My Movie ___Math ___3d ____Quaternion _____Rate My Image _____Rate My Movie _____Math ____Heightmaps _____Rate My Image ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Math __IFS ___Flame ____Rate my Image (as long as it's not made using ElectricSheep) ___Rate My Image ___Rate My Movie ___Math __Strange Attractors ___2d ____Rate My Image ___3d ____Rate My Image ___Rate My Image ___Rate My Movie ___Math __Sierpinski triangle __Natralistic Fractals ___Landscapes ____Rate My Image ____Rate My Movie ____Math ___Math __Fractals in Nature ___Rate my Photo ___Rate my Movie __Movies ___Rate My Movie ___The Best Movies [Locked from most people adding stuff] __Fractal Sounds ___Waveforms ____Rate my Sound ___Midi ____Rate my Sound ___Other ____Rate my Sound __Fractal Software ___UltraFractal ____Formula ____Colourings _____Inside Only _____Outside Only _____That Require the Formula Pixel _____Orbit Traps Based _____Slope or Emboss _____TIA ____Mappings ___Apophysis ___ElectricSheep ___Chaoscope ___Fractinit ___Fractal.org ___Chaospro ___Fractal eXtreme ___Life32 or Mcell (Fractal related desscution only) ___Other Software Groups ____Quaternion ____3d mandlebrot type (other than Quaternion) [needs a better name] ____Natralistic _____Landscapes ____Fractal Sounds __Fractals as Art __Fractals made using traditional media ___Rate My Image ___Rate My Animation __Fractals as Math ___Statistics and Trends ___Chaos Theroy ____Bifurcation Theory ____Complex Analysis ____Brand New Theories __History __Fractal Compression ___Audio Compression ___Data Compression ___Image Compression ___Movie Compression All "Rate My Image" Forums would need a read first stickied post explaning how to upload to imageshack. All "Rate My Movie" Forums would need a read first stickied post explaning how to upload to google video and other free large file uploading websites. I think it would be nice to link in places to pages of Wikipedia Iv'e put most things on at least the second level because the first two don't have forums, they are just sections (like "Welcome to Fractal Forums" is) and categories (like "Fractal Community" is) If thease changes where to take place among other things the thread http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?topic=75.0 would be of no use anymore and not need to be transfered over. :) Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 04, 2006, 09:24:55 PM This looks a comprehensive change, and a good one. I will consult with my fellow moderator. In the meantime if anyone has any comments on this structure or would like to propose changes or alternatives please do!
Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 04, 2006, 09:40:20 PM Thanks :)
Im really glad you like it Title: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Jules Ruis on October 04, 2006, 11:27:29 PM I would like to stay with the Julius Ruis set in the trits: Mandelbrot sets, Julia sets, Julius Ruis sets.
Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 05, 2006, 09:49:18 AM From Matera:
Yes, it looks good. I did a little thinking and some adding and switching, leaving most of it intact. Gotta love cut&paste Smiley It will take a little more thinking, I would think (lol). You know a lot more about some aspects of it than I do, I'm just an old art-hacker. Anyway, here's my outline: _______________________ Welcome to Fractal Forums _ Fractal Community _ _ Meet & Greet _ _ Discuss Fractal Forums _ _ _ Moderate Fractal Forums (Join us) _ _ Polls _ _ Non-Fractal related topics _ _ Fractal News across the world _ _ Information _ _ _ FAQ _ _ _ Fractal links (informative) _ _ _ Fractal links (galleries) _ Fractals _ _ Mandelbrot Type Fractals [needs a better name] _ _ _ Mandelbrot _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Mandelbrot's Julia _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Newton _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Nova _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Bansley's _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Phoenix _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Magnet _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Lambda _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ Other Spacific Fractals _ _ _ _ Julius Ruis _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ _ Close Variations _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ Math _ _ _ 3d _ _ _ _ Quaternion _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ _ Math _ _ _ _ Heightmaps _ _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ _ Math _ _ IFS _ _ _ Flame _ _ _ _ Rate my Image (as long as it's not made using ElectricSheep) _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ Math _ _ Strange Attractors _ _ _ 2d _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ 3d _ _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ Rate My Image _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ Math _ _ Fractals in Nature _ _ _ Rate my Photo _ _ _ Rate my Movie _ _ Movies _ _ _ Rate My Movie _ _ _ The Best Movies [Locked from most people adding stuff] _ _ Fractal Sounds _ _ _ Waveforms _ _ _ _ Rate my Sound _ _ _ Midi _ _ _ _ Rate my Sound _ _ _ Other _ _ _ _ Rate my Sound _ _ Fractal Software _ _ _ UltraFractal _ _ _ Apophysis _ _ _ ElectricSheep _ _ _ Chaoscope _ _ _ Fractinit _ _ _ Fractal.org _ _ _ Chaospro _ _ _ Fractal Explorer _ _ _ Life32 or Mcell (Fractal related desscution only) _ _ _ Other Software Groups _ _ _ _ Quaternion _ _ _ _ 3d mandlebrot type (other than Quaternion) [needs a better name] _ _ _ _ Natralistic _ _ _ _ _ Landscapes _ _ _ _ Fractal Sounds _ _ Fractals as Art _ _ _ Patterns and Symmetry _ _ _ Natralistic Fractals _ _ _ _ Landscapes _ _ _ _ Creatures _ _ _ Post-processing _ _ _ _ Software, techniques _ _ _ _ Rate my Fractal _ _ _ (possible general discussion of fractal esthetics?) _ _ Fractals as Math _ _ _ Statistics and Trends _ _ _ Chaos Theroy _ _ _ _ Bifurcation Theory _ _ _ _ Complex Analysis _ _ _ _ Brand New Theories _ _ History (and biography) _ _ Fractal Compression _ _ _ Audio Compression _ _ _ Data Compression _ _ _ Image Compression _ _ _ Movie Compression _ _ _ Other practical applications Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 05, 2006, 11:05:44 AM I edited again
The "Mandelbrot/Julia etc... Type Fractals" will need a clarifation sticky explaning that this section is only for fractal geometery with a link to the fractal software section for people who want to descuss UltraFractal colourings\mappings etc... for those fractals. I confess a lack a knolege about the "Chaos Theroy" Forum and It's subforums. Also I know little about mac and linux spacific fractal software, although if there is good or widely used software then it should be added as a subforum to the apropreate place in the "Fractal Software" Forum. About heneganj's comments on "Proposal 1" I question the "Other practical applications" subforum of "Chaos Theroy" as the forum "Chaos Theroy" itself can be used to discuss things to do with chaos theroy not related to any of its subforums. Your formatting is defenatly clearer however in order to be consistant there should be a linespace between thease two lines _ _ _ Math _ _ Strange Attractors and thease two lines _ _ _ Math _ _ Fractals in Nature and thease two lines _ _ _ Rate my Movie _ _ Movies I think Natralistic Fractals needs a math discustion section and needs to be given its own catogery not just be inside of "Fractals as Art". It would be best to put it just after the strage atractors section as in my first post. I would also question the subforum "Creatures", although it is far more relevent if left in "Fractals as art". What would fractal ethics discuss? Tell me more about fractal post processing, also the rate my fractal subforum of it could be "rate my image" or "rate my movie" to clarify. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 05, 2006, 06:01:26 PM Personally, I see possible problems when trying to list so many different kinds of fractals and fractal software as sub-groups. There are way to many to make navigation easy or even finding what you are looking for, especially when it comes to the over 600 fractal programs available for download on the Internet.
If you really must list so many software programs, it would be better to have them in ascending alphabetical order. You know how many programs actually begin with the letters "Fract" ?? And why do there even need to be so many separate groups for fractal software?? The majority of programs being used have one or more of their own discussion groups already. It would seem that just a single group about fractal software would suffice when people here wished to know something. If they really wanted to have all of the details about a certain application, they could get more useful information, and a lot more of it from the already established Users Groups that exist for those products. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 05, 2006, 06:11:03 PM Im not gona list everything, only the good ones, Iv'e probbebly listed all the ones worth listing now. Most people use Ultra Fractal and most equations are disighned to work with UltraFractal, however we dont want to alianate people who use other software.
The list is hierarchical, and one of the first dicisions people make is to go into software spacific descution or into genral disscution. It would be easyer to make it all software spacific and make the genral only for matmatical discution, but I was trying to avoid doing that. Even forumi that go between programs have difrent implementations as fractal programs are capable of doing diffrent things. It would be choas (in a bad way) to have fractint and untrafractal people discussing the same fractals in the same thread on the same forum and confusing each other. Please Re-read post one, Iv'e edited in "Proposal 2" which I think is much better. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: matera on October 06, 2006, 03:27:20 AM It would be better to simplify it at first, as Paul said. It is easier to add than take out. I think that having the rate-my-this-and-that in every category is definitely overkill, but I left them in the list because I didn't want to go too far with it all at once. Getting the main categories set is most important. The subcategories can multiply when users ask for them. We need to look at where the most posts are being made for a while, and see if other members have suggestions.
Title: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Jules Ruis on October 06, 2006, 08:37:01 AM I agree with the reordering of the Forum with the most reactions.
I think the 'Meet' Forum is such one. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 06, 2006, 12:58:52 PM "Proposal 2" takes out most of the rate this and that ones Matera the Mad.
I thought it was important to subcatogrise it properly at first to allow descution to take place properly, if there are completly unused forums then maybe they should be removed. There are still verry general forums, you don't have to go though all the way to the last level to post something. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 06, 2006, 03:08:52 PM Hi my gut reaction to both proposals is that they are way too complicated for (at least) a one-time forum change. That is not saying I don't think both are incredibly detailed and well thought out, however! I could be wrong, but looking at proposal 2's Ultrafractal section, it's huge!!
I agree with Mat in that it's better to add than take away. So would it be better to prune the existing forum and then build it up? For example a starting point might be to prune all current forums/threads with no posts. What might be useful if there are a few (i.e. 3 or more) proposals on the table is to conduct a poll. Moving forward I am not against looking at forum restructures once a month to ensure the forum evolves to its users needs. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 06, 2006, 05:47:25 PM If we have just more General descustion and we had a hundred of users, they would be mostly showing there stuff they had made using UF with a few showing stuff from other software. The few from other software would keep asking "how did you manege that?" type questions to which there would always be the same answers.
We could just develop it one level at a time, build the first three levels and then the rest as they are needed. The thing is they are not likely to be "needed", there will just be rather messy discution and it will not be obvious that we need more stucture. Also if something is not related to any of the subforum's of the forum you are in but is related to the forum you are in you could just post it there. New users will not emedatly be looking at that whole list I wrote, only the forums on level 3 which will be fine for them to place there more general threads in. It also seprates out the images and movies sections, to keep the rest free for discution. The section of other software such as aphophyis does not need to be big as there is no obvious subforums needed. It dosn't mean that it won't prove to be the most popular forum. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 06, 2006, 05:55:59 PM Yes I understand your point.
Here's a suggestion: For the top level of the forums, i.e. the root boards, try to think how many boards would be the ideal number? When I first designed FF I wanted 10 - just 10. I like 10, 10 is a nice round number. Some of the proposals here reduce that number significantly. Then, lower level boards need not be so detailed. Remember a first time visitor to the site must see sufficient fractal related topics for them to be 'caught' - i.e. join us (or come back for more). OK so too many topics is overload, too little means digging deeper. Do you think 10 root level topics is a good choice? Less or more is better? That might be a good starting point for restructures. For example if I said you are limited to 5, what would the five be? (it's just a rhetorical question and I'm not going to dictate policy - this is a discussion!) Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 06, 2006, 06:13:52 PM Im not gona list everything, only the good ones, Iv'e probbebly listed all the ones worth listing now. This is mainly your own preferences that you have listed, and it is only your personal opinion. There are many more that are very good for what they do and definitely worth listing (if it is to be a true list of "good ones"). Most people use Ultra Fractal and most equations are disighned to work with UltraFractal, however we dont want to alianate people who use other software. Actually, more people in the world have used FractInt (http://www.Nahee.com/spanky/www/fractint/fractint.html) than any other fractal generating software. Yet this was listed further down the list. And there was no mention of any of Stephan C. Ferguson's or Terry W. Gintz's contributions to the fractal community in regards to fractal software. I personally prefer KPT and QuaSZ (http://www.MysticFractal.com/QuaSZ.html), but I do not want to have them listed just because that is what I like and use the most. If you want to know the count of each individual as to their "Most Used" program, then try this link for information: http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Most_Used_Counts.html (http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Most_Used_Counts.html) If you want to know the count of each individual as to the various programs "Tried and/or in Use", then go here: http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Tried-Use_Counts.html (http://www.Nahee.com/Census/Tried-Use_Counts.html) The list is hierarchical, and one of the first dicisions people make is to go into software spacific descution or into genral disscution. If you turn this forum into a lot of sub-groups based upon specific software applications, I can almost guarantee that it will be the downfall of this forum. I have definitely been involved with more fractal forums, groups, lists, etc.. than the average fractal user, and even more so than a lot of the mainstream enthusiasts. I have seen this happen before, and it only causes problems in the long run. It would be much better to keep from trying to lead people one way or the other towards choosing specific software just because a small group of people wish to set up this forum that way. Better to be more open-minded and have general groups when it comes to specific software. It would be choas (in a bad way) to have fractint and untrafractal people discussing the same fractals in the same thread on the same forum and confusing each other. Why not have them in the same group, that is how UF got started in the first place. Frederik Slijkerman got a lot of the ideas, code examples, and more from the FractInt (http://www.Nahee.com/spanky/www/fractint/fractint.html) program and the "Stone Soup" developers when he began creating version 2 a few years ago. And besides, UF was made to use most of the PAR, FRM, and MAP files that FractInt uses for it's application (though Frederik Slijkerman never did finish supporting all the fractal formulas that FractInt can do). I would just hate to see this forum turned into a software specific set of groups, like other groups ended up being. It has caused other groups to lose those people that preferred other types of fractal software than what some Moderator thought should be listed. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 06, 2006, 06:59:52 PM @Nahee_Enterprises
You make good arguments Nahee_Enterprises I think you should gain a rank on thease forums for you'r Insights. I would be happy to have thease ones listed in this order http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Most_Used_Counts.html It seems to be a good representation Although I don't understand what the apeal is with FractInt other than it is what people used in the days of MS Dos, I found it verry limeting compared to UF and I tried out the newest verstion verry recently. Intresting, XenoDream is neer the top, I guess that is why UF has got all those missleading pictures in its showcase atm. Is it maybe trying to compete with XenoDream on the 3D front? I would like to try XenoDream, I may get round to buying it soon, It seems to be the only fractal software to do a lot of the stuff it claims to be able to do. Tierazon looked intresting I think http://www.mysticfractal.com should defenatly combine there stuff into just one program, insted of lots of small less usefull ones. Bear in mind that what we can do with fractals is driven by what software lets us do, we can always have a forum for people who like to write there own sofware too, and use the fractals as math forum (dosn't have to be called that) for genral discution of particular fractals in a way unrealated to software. Hmm, I do understand you arguments, we will have to think for a bit, a solution will come, hopefully we can find a solution we are both happy with. @heneganj There are 34 visable forums at the start, in order to bring this down to 5 or ten eather everything would need to be brought up a level with only one item on the first and second levels bringing it down to 6 or the layout would have to be complelty redisigned. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: stijnw on October 06, 2006, 11:29:59 PM > @Nahee_Enterprises > > Bear in mind that what we can do with fractals is driven by what software lets us do, we can always have a forum for people who > like to write there own sofware too, and use the fractals as math forum (dosn't have to be called that) for genral discution of > particular fractals in a way unrealated to software. Good idea! Personally I would like to see a section for fractal programming too. I know there is a mailinglist "fractal-programmers", but I noticed that a lot of spam appeared on the list lately :( Friendly regards, Stijn Wolters. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: matera on October 07, 2006, 03:09:14 AM I second all that. I haven't had time to do any deep thinking on the subject, I'm knee-deep in a fresh website project and I have to forego other obsessions.
I wouldn't want to cut all of the unused boards yet - there are a few I want to post in! I just haven't had the time to get the thoughts together. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: stijnw on October 07, 2006, 04:50:49 PM I second all that. I haven't had time to do any deep thinking on the subject, I'm knee-deep in a fresh website project and I have to forego other obsessions. Yes, I know the problem :-[ Anyway, I'm not sure how the forums should be organized, but I would really like to see some on the topics of fractal-programming and fractal-music. Maybe the 'Buddhabrot' can be added to the list of the Mandelbrot-, Julia- and Julius Ruis set, in the 'Classic fractals'-forum. Friendly regards, Stijn Wolters. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 12, 2006, 11:06:59 AM Welcome to Fractal Forums
_Fractal Community __Meet & Greet __Discuss Fractal Forums ___Fractal Forums News MOVED ___Moderate Fractal Forums (Join us) __Polls DELETE _Fractal News across the world _Non-Fractal related topics _FAQ & Rules CHANGED _Fractal Links __Member submitted links __Commercial Corner Fractal Art Totally restructured _Best of the Board - Moderator run links to the highest rated submissions on the site _Apophysis __Image Showcase (users post images here) __Help, Support & Discussion _UltraFractal __Image Showcase (users post images here) __Help, Support & Discussion _Fractinit __Image Showcase (users post images here) __Help, Support & Discussion _Others __XenoDream __ElectricSheep __Chaoscope __Chaospro __Fractal eXtreme __Others Fractal Movies Restructured _Movie showcase Fractal Math; Theory & Research _Fractal Math Opinion sought on this section - what are the topic headings? also needs better title __Mandelbrot/Julia Type ___Mandelbrot ____Julia ___Newton ___Nova ___Bansley's ___Phoenix ___Magnet ___Lambda __IFS ___Flame __Strange Attractors ___2d ___3d __Lindenmayer __Sierpinski triangle __Natralistic Fractals ___Landscapes __Fractal Sounds ___Waveforms ___Midi ___Other __Statistics, Measurements and Trends __Chaos Theroy ___Bifurcation Theory ___Complex Analysis _Practical Applications of Fractal Theory __Fluid Dynamics & Turbulence needs better title __Markets & Behaviour Prediction needs better title? _Brand New Theories & Research Let me know what you think because I am going to run a member 'recruitment' drive and want this forum structure in place before I run it. As forum usage tends to be lower at the weekend how about I set the weekend as a deadline? What strikes me is this (and of course correct me if I'm wrong) - the major points for interests in fractals for people are either going to be 1) art or 2) math/theory, that's it. Any more? Our dear friend Jules is crying out for more theory; math and research, and many users here are chomping at the bit to post images. I want to please everybody! Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 12, 2006, 06:58:50 PM Jason Henegan wrote:
> > ....the major points for interests in fractals for people are > either going to be 1) art or 2) math/theory, that's it. That could be because of the theory of brain laterilization, where each of these main topic areas are handled differently based upon the individuals capabilities. Most people are predominantly either left-brained or right-brained, meaning they have tendencies towards one way or the other, and rarely both at the same time. > > I want to please everybody! You know that can not be accomplished, don't you?? ;) All you can do is satify those that are the "squeakiest wheels", those that verbally (written or otherwise) influence your decision the most one way or the other. This is why I would rather NOT see any specific categories or sub-categories when it comes to actual fractal applications. This is the reason that there are so many current fractal Groups and Discussion Lists on the Internet right now. There always ends up being a big argument, and then a portion of those people go off and start their own "forum" just so they do not have to deal with the ones that argue against them. Even though a few software applications are more favored than others, it still promotes those (whether they are worth using or not) over the ones that are not listed as a category. And doing so seems to be an unfair practice in my opinion. But then again, I have used several hundred fractal generators, and can see benefit in many of them over others, which is why I never say anything about a program being the "best". Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 12, 2006, 09:27:39 PM Great comments.
How would you like to see (on the Fractal Art front): Fractal Art _Best of the Board - Moderator run links to the highest rated submissions on the site _Image Showcase (Rate my fractal) _Help Support & Discussion .. that's it.. The discussion would then turn to the Fractal Math section.. Would it be worth just: Fractal Math; Theory & Research _General Discussion _Practical Applications of Fractal Theory __Fluid Dynamics & Turbulence needs better title __Markets & Behaviour Prediction needs better title? _Brand New Theories & Research I ask because if you show a number of fractal types - some will be more popular than others and (as you say) there might be merit in some lesser known/used fractals than others. I picked the software titles I did because I felt they were the most popular - I make no comment on their quality but it has to be said there must be some inherent quality in something that's popular.. I can promote sub forums that become popular and demote stagnant forums too - it will evolve naturally. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: matera on October 13, 2006, 04:08:58 AM My latest offering:
Welcome to Fractal Forums _ Fractal Community _ _ FAQ & Rules _ _ Meet & Greet _ _ Fractal Links _ _ _ Member submitted links _ _ _ Commercial Corner _ _ Discuss Fractal Forums | _ Moderate Fractal Forums (Join us) - this could be just a sticky topic _ _ _ Fractal Forums News _ _Non-Fractal related topics Fractal Art _Image Showcase (users post images here) | _Best of the Board - Moderator run links to the highest rated submissions on the site (sticky topic) _ Discussion - Is it art? _ Fractal Movies _Fractal music _Image format and printing Software _ Help & Support _Discussion _Programming Fractal Math, Theory & Research _ Fractal Math _ _ Mandelbrot/Julia Type _ _Newton _ _Nova _ _ Barnsley _ _ Phoenix _ _Magnet _ _ Lambda _ _ IFS _ _ Flame _ _ Strange Attractors _ _ Lindenmayer _ _ Sierpinski _ _Unusual and new types (too many?) _ Statistics, Measurements and Trends _ Chaos Theroy _ _ _ Bifurcation Theory _ _ _ Complex Analysis _ Practical Applications of Fractal Theory _ _ Fluid Dynamics & Turbulence _ _ Markets & Behaviour Prediction _ New Theories & Research _ Fractal News across the world gee, I feel almost useful ;) I think that if very many topics are started on a particular subject it rates a separtate forum, but too many to start out...foo Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: stijnw on October 13, 2006, 11:39:47 AM My latest offering: [...] I think that if very many topics are started on a particular subject it rates a separtate forum, but too many to start out...foo I like this structure! It's clear and a relatively short list. Friendly regards, Stijn Wolters. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: stijnw on October 13, 2006, 12:24:57 PM My latest offering: [...] Software _ Help & Support _Discussion _Programming I think 'Announcements' would be nice in this category, I think that if very many topics are started on a particular subject it rates a separtate forum, but too many to start out...foo Yes, it's best to start with a short list (which I think this one is) and add other forums along the way... Friendly regards, Stijn Wolters. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: rloldershaw on October 13, 2006, 05:04:55 PM Hi,
Unless I am missing something, I see no forum specifically devoted to the discussion of fractals in nature. This is very curious. Even if fractal forums is 99% devoted to art, i.e., to manmade fractals, I still think we should maintain some interest in, and connection to, natural fractals. Otherwise, it seems to me that we are ignoring one of the most important applications of fractal modelling: more comprehensive and more accurate descriptions of nature. Rob Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 13, 2006, 05:39:42 PM Welcome to Fractal Forums
_ Fractal Community _ _ FAQ & Rules _ _ Meet & Greet _ _ Fractal Links _ _ _ Member submitted links _ _ _ Commercial Corner _ _ Discuss Fractal Forums | _ Moderate Fractal Forums (Join us) - this is just a sticky topic _ _ _ Fractal Forums News _ _Non-Fractal related topics Fractal Art _Image Showcase (users post images here) | _Best of the Board - Moderator run links to the highest rated submissions on the site (sticky topic) _ Discussion - Is it art? _ Fractal Movies _Fractal music _Image format and printing Software _ Help & Support _Discussion _Programming _Announcements & News Fractal Math, Chaos Theory & Research too many sections here! help! _ New Theories & Research _ Fractal Math _ _ Mandelbrot/Julia Type _ _Newton _ _Nova _ _ Barnsley _ _ Phoenix _ _Magnet _ _ Lambda _ _ IFS _ _ Flame _ _ Strange Attractors _ _ Lindenmayer _ _ Sierpinski _ _Unusual and new types (too many?) yes too many let's reduce it _ Statistics, Measurements and Trends ??? what would this show? Real World Examples & Practical Applications of Fractal Theory _ Fluid Dynamics & Turbulence _ Markets & Behaviour Prediction _ Observations in Nature _ Fractal News across the world Let me know what you think of this structure above I have tried to include comments from recent posts. I like the idea of art, theory and practical/real world all in different sections - this seems intuitive to me. Rob I have placed Nature in the Real World section but since nature is naturally occuring ( ;) ) then nature based topics could go anywhere at all in this section - it would be a very broad topic which I think is what you're getting at. Mat I have added announcements/news to Software. Whilst I think posting volumes would be low for this topic, it is very important. But let me ask you a question - couldn't we just post software news to the more broader Fractal News? (just playing devil's advocate) I like the sticky topics ideas, they cut down the number of topics nicely. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 13, 2006, 07:35:21 PM Defining the various categories should be like setting up an Outline to be used for a dissertation, manuscript, or treatise.
As long as there are no more than five or six major topic categories (and it might be pruned down to three or four), then that is something that is easily handled and navigable. These would be static for the life of the forum, and would not need to be modified or added to. They are the very broad/general terms concerning fractal related information. Establishing what goes where for the second level of sub-categories is still based upon a very generalized set of terms under their respective major topics. Nothing detailed and specific either at this level, unless there was no need for a third level beneath it. Everything after the first two levels (whether thrid, fourth, fifth, or more) would be added as required, based upon the amount of postings and need for further breakdown. Starting off with the bare necessities of pre-defined categories should be all that this forum needs. The fewer the better as a starting point is how I would approach it. As long as the task of breaking apart large numbers of postings into smaller categories can be accomplished easily, then there should not be a great need for many sub-categories. And since I have never used this SMF system in an Administrative role, I can not say which way is the easiest to maintain. But I can see that we have several sub-categories that are basically getting no response at all (traffic does not really count, since that is only those browsing). The replies and initial posts should be the determining factor on how well a sub-category is doing. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 15, 2006, 12:56:29 AM I like heneganj's "Reply #19 on: October 12, 2006, 10:06:59 am" one.
Title: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Jules Ruis on October 15, 2006, 02:00:23 AM My advice is to take some time before restructing the Fractal Forums.
It is absolutely not clear what kind of content is real wanted by the users. At this moment it looks like that only art-users are dominant; that should be a pity if continues. With kind regards, Jules Ruis. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: alan2here on October 15, 2006, 01:52:46 PM At this moment it looks like that only art-users are dominant; that should be a pity if continues. I wanted to put seprate forums for mainly art and mainly math usersIm a fractal artist but would not want the whole forum to become completly overun with only artists. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 15, 2006, 09:34:41 PM So did I it makes perfect sense. The 'fractal community' is a meeting place in the middle. Also I wanted a Real World section to be in the middle ground too.
Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 15, 2006, 10:48:18 PM Jason Henegan (Administrator) wrote:
> > ....it makes perfect sense. The 'fractal community' is a > meeting place in the middle. Also I wanted a Real World > section to be in the middle ground too. I agree with you Jason, as you say, a "fractal community" for these Fractal Forums needs to have as much as possible (if not every aspect) altogether in one area. Separating into two different sites would not expose each side to the other as well. Nor would it allow for an exchange of ideas, concepts, etc. between the two as readily. The truth of the matter is, there definitely are not as many people who wish to be that involved with Mathematics. The majority of individuals get involved with fractals as a hobby or interest. They wish to escape the day to day routines of their life and do something fun or creative. If they happen to learn a bit of math along the way, that is good. But they usually do not wish to be bogged down into heavy discussions of formulae. The world and the people in it are not going to change. It has been this way for centuries, and will most likely continue as such. And for most people, mathematics taught in school was never fun, just something they were forced into. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: matera on October 16, 2006, 02:44:06 AM I had fun with math in school, up to a point. Unfortunately, it is mostly taught by a lot of guys with no sense of humor and no idea that it should be enjoyed. Fractals did not exist when I went to school either!
It is true that the fractal adventure is usually a vacation time. The majority of fractal lovers don't have the time to devote to the mathematical side. Most of the time it's to heck with the math, DIVE! I like to simply go hunting in the fractal forest late at night to wind down. But it is good to remember that without the math, and those who see the fun and beauty in it, we would not have all the fun and beauty of fractals. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 16, 2006, 02:14:38 PM Can anyone suggest a new forum structure or modifications to any of those proposed?
Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 16, 2006, 07:17:31 PM Jason Henegan (Administrator) wrote:
> > Can anyone suggest a new forum structure or > modifications to any of those proposed? At the moment I think we have covered the basics, and expressed each of our opinions about it. The question at present is, when will the reorganization take place ?? Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 16, 2006, 10:02:23 PM This week. The forum will be put into maintenance mode (which locks out users), I'll back up everything and take a printout and get to work.
IIS needs restarting anyway because I tinkered with HTTP compression settings. Although I believe moderators have the abillity to restructure the forum (correct me if you don't) I think it best if only one person does the initial restructuring. If any tweaks need to occur after that I'm happy that all appointed moderators carve up the forum as they see fit. Sound good to everyone? :) Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 16, 2006, 10:30:44 PM Jason Henegan (Administrator) wrote:
> > IIS needs restarting anyway because I tinkered > with HTTP compression settings. I had not bothered checking on the type of server being used, had assumed it was Apache because of the PHP. Microsoft will do, as long as there are plenty of safeguards in place. ;) > > Although I believe moderators have the abillity to > restructure the forum (correct me if you don't).... Can a Moderator create a new Board under one of the main Forums?? If so, how is this accomplished?? For that matter, can a Moderator create a main Forum?? Neither of these have I found the ability to do yet. And I still do not have the ability to see all of the values listed for individuals when the Members List is selected: http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=mlist (http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=mlist) > > ....I think it best if only one person does the initial > restructuring. If any tweaks need to occur after > that I'm happy that all appointed moderators carve > up the forum as they see fit. Very wise. Restructuring is kind of like driving a car, best when only one person is behind the wheel. ;) Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: xenodreambuie on October 16, 2006, 11:38:00 PM Jason, I'm not convinced about some of the categories. I think you had it right earlier, with Flames being a subcategory of IFS. I don't know whether a firm definition of flame fractal has ever been given (and whether it refers to the use of IFS including nonlinear variations or the rendering algorithm or both), and most people seem to go by appearances. Technically, all implementations of flame fractals so far are 100% within the IFS category and I would be surprised if that changed.
I also consider all kinds of Sierpinski gaskets to be categorized as IFS due to their form, although some can be produced by a wider variety of algorithms, so YMMV. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: matera on October 17, 2006, 06:49:28 AM I agree about the one-driver rule of thumb. Jason is Our Exalted Leader, and must have a deciding role in any changes. I would always ask before making any changes above topic level (outside of the practice forum, that is lol).
Can a Moderator create a new Board under one of the main Forums?? If so, how is this accomplished?? See the topic in the new "Disposable" board ;)For that matter, can a Moderator create a main Forum?? Neither of these have I found the ability to do yet. The "Create a new category" link on the board modification page in Admin gives you the means to make a new main forum. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 17, 2006, 10:12:12 AM Jason, I'm not convinced about some of the categories. I think you had it right earlier, with Flames being a subcategory of IFS. I don't know whether a firm definition of flame fractal has ever been given (and whether it refers to the use of IFS including nonlinear variations or the rendering algorithm or both), and most people seem to go by appearances. Technically, all implementations of flame fractals so far are 100% within the IFS category and I would be surprised if that changed. I also consider all kinds of Sierpinski gaskets to be categorized as IFS due to their form, although some can be produced by a wider variety of algorithms, so YMMV. No problem the categories can be changed. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 17, 2006, 10:15:18 AM and must have a deciding role in any changes. I would always ask before making any changes above topic level (outside of the practice forum, that is lol). I would only rather have a deciding role if there was a tied vote between moderators. I have awarded moderatorship to empower decision makers. I think it sensible to ask about changes above topic level - I would (and am doing in this thread) ask for opinions myself. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 17, 2006, 10:43:23 AM Quote And I still do not have the ability to see all of the values listed for individuals when the Members List is selected: http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=mlist Paul you are the only person to have entered a value in all columns. Could you send me a screenshot of what you see? moderator at fractalforums.com Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 17, 2006, 11:07:06 AM L. Haglund AKA Matera the Mad wrote:
> > See the topic in the new "Disposable" board ;) > The "Create a new category" link on the board modification > page in Admin gives you the means to make a new main forum. I do not have access to the Admin area. So the instructions are meaningless to me. Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: Nahee_Enterprises on October 17, 2006, 11:18:26 AM Jason Henegan (Administrator) wrote:
> > Paul you are the only person to have entered a value > in all columns. Could you send me a screenshot of > what you see? Out of all the members that show on the webpages, only two people have anything at all in those "contact" fields, and not all of those value are showing up for me. Here is the screen-shot: (http://home.att.net/~Fractals_5/MemberList.png) Title: Re: Recatogorising the Forums? Post by: heneganj on October 17, 2006, 12:10:21 PM (http://i11.tinypic.com/44ipr9j.jpg) hmm. |